Your Website Is Speaking—Here’s How to Finally Listen (And Scale Smarter)
Your website isn’t just a digital brochure—it’s a goldmine of insights that most business leaders overlook. On the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast, host Harley Green sits down with digital strategy expert Philippa Gamse, author of Website Wealth and founder of Websites That Win, to discuss how smart leaders can turn web analytics into strategic growth tools.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
🔍 Why Web Analytics Matter More Than Ever
Philippa, a digital veteran with 25+ years of experience, explains that modern web analytics goes far beyond bounce rates and page views. Today, you can:
Track video watch time
Review screen recordings to understand user behavior
Analyze on-site searches to uncover product or content gaps
And it’s not about tracking every metric—it’s about tracking what matters.
💡 Turn Insights into Revenue
Here’s the gold: your website search bar is a marketing research tool in disguise. Philippa shares real-world examples where analyzing what users searched for (but didn’t find) led to new product ideas and service offerings.
She also stresses the importance of understanding user intent and mapping your site’s outcomes (like email signups or content engagement) to clear business goals.
🚫 Mistakes to Avoid
Overanalyzing everything. Focus only on metrics tied to actionable business outcomes.
Expecting exact numbers. Due to privacy settings and AI traffic, your analytics reflect trends, not absolutes.
Ignoring calls to action. Content that ends without a next step is a wasted opportunity.
🤖 How AI Is Changing Analytics
From traffic source labeling (AI bots now show up!) to predictive analytics, tools like Google Analytics 4 are evolving fast. But AI still can’t replace human strategy and creative decision-making. Think of it as a powerful intern—not your marketing director.
✅ Start Here: One Smart Move
Philippa’s challenge to leaders: 👉 If you’re not using analytics, start today. 👉 If you are, use it to answer good questions—not just to stare at traffic numbers.
Tracking a few meaningful metrics tied to real business outcomes can unlock faster, smarter growth.
📚 Resources from Philippa Gamse
Book:Website Wealth: A Business Leader’s Guide to Driving Real Value from Your Analytics
🔹 Your business can only grow as fast as your clarity. Don’t let busywork bury your potential.
Schedule a free discovery call with Workergenix and discover how a strategic executive assistant can help you focus on what truly moves the needle.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript
Harley Green: Welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast.Now your website is speaking to you. Most leaders just don’t know how to listen. In this episode, Philippa Gamse, digital strategy veteran and author of Website Wealth, a business leader’s guide for driving real value from your analytics, shares how decision makers can use web analytics to uncover hidden opportunities, eliminate waste, and make smarter business moves.
With over 25 years of experience consulting on high-performing websites around the world, Philippa offers some simple, jargon-free strategies that turn data into actionable insights and growth.
Philippa Gamse: Hi Harley, I’m great. How are you?
Harley Green: I’m doing wonderful. Now, tell us a little bit more about your background. How did you get into doing website analytics?
Philippa Gamse: Well, this tells you that I’ve been around a little while, but I’ve been using the web for a long time. Before Google Analytics, I had a friend where I live in Santa Cruz who made a very early analytics program called ClickTracks. It was the most intuitive, easy-to-use, graphically helpful program that helped small businesses understand what was going on with their websites. I loved it and got involved. I loved analytics and the whole concept. Then Google came along with Google Analytics, which was free, unlike my friend’s program. That was the end of that, but I was hooked on analytics. So that’s where it started.
Harley Green: You’ve been in digital strategy and analytics for a long time, as you mentioned. How has your approach to web analytics evolved, and why would you say it’s more relevant than ever for leaders today?
Philippa Gamse: Because of the power of how you can program it. It used to tell us fairly basic stuff like how many people come to your website or bounce rates. Now we can go much deeper into user behavior. We can look at screen recordings showing how users move about on the page. We can figure out how much of a video people watch. Analytics is supposed to be anonymous, so we don’t know exactly who is on the site, but we can understand visitor behavior. That helps us give visitors what they want, which makes them feel good about what we do—ultimately leading to more conversions.
Harley Green: You mentioned all this information from analytics. I’m sure a lot of people listening might feel overwhelmed. What’s the first thing they should look for that actually moves the needle?
Philippa Gamse: When I work with clients, I tell them you don’t have to look at analytics yourself—find someone who can help. But you, as the business owner, must know what your website is supposed to do. Your site could be selling products, building authority, showcasing videos or podcasts, growing your email list, or supporting customers. Whatever its purpose, you have to be clear on it first. That allows us to measure whether it’s achieving those goals. Looking at numbers without context doesn’t help. My favorite question is, “So what?” You’ve got X number of visitors—so what? Are they the right visitors? Did they do what you wanted them to do? That’s what matters.
Harley Green: One thing you talk about is hidden gems in web analytics. What are some surprising insights that businesses often overlook?
Philippa Gamse: Once you’ve sorted out the basics, you can explore more. One of my favorite tools is the on-site search engine—tracking what users search for on your website. It’s a fantastic source of marketing research. It tells you the language people use, which is helpful if you’re in an industry with technical jargon. It also shows you demand for things you may not offer yet, which could lead to new products or services. You might also identify new target markets by tracking where visitors come from. You can find leaks where people leave when they shouldn’t. Calls to action are crucial—blogs, for example, should always end with a next step. Don’t miss opportunities to further engage visitors.
Harley Green: That’s so smart—using data you already have. On the flip side, what are some of the biggest mistakes leaders make when trying to use analytics to guide business strategy?
Philippa Gamse: A big one is having unrealistic expectations. There are constraints, especially with privacy rules. Analytics data represents a sample, not the full picture. Some users won’t be tracked, and different tools measure things differently. Analytics should not be your official tool of record—that’s your CRM. Trying to reconcile numbers between tools can be frustrating and isn’t usually helpful unless there’s a significant discrepancy.
Harley Green: I’m sure there have been changes with AI and crawlers. How should we interpret analytics differently now?
Philippa Gamse: I use Google Analytics mostly. We’re now seeing AI traffic sources show up in reports. You can tell how visitors reached your site—from search engines, social media, email, and now, AI. Google Analytics also uses AI to highlight anomalies or traffic peaks. While it might just tell you something obvious like a newsletter spike, it can also generate charts and graphs more efficiently. But AI can’t replace the human element—like deciding to launch a new product based on user behavior. That creative strategy still needs a person.
Harley Green: Awesome. How should people start integrating web analytics into their broader business planning?
Philippa Gamse: It should be a core part of your strategy. Analytics can inform predictive models—for example, estimating inventory needs for e-commerce. You should evaluate if your current strategy is working and use data to guide future moves. Make it part of your ongoing business planning.
Harley Green: As companies grow and gather more data, when does it make sense to delegate analytics tasks?
Philippa Gamse: Don’t try to measure everything. Measure what matters—metrics you can act on. Focus on solving one problem at a time. If you’re changing multiple things at once, it’s hard to know what caused the change. It’s better to track a few current priorities and test them thoroughly.
Harley Green: You’ve taught at business schools and consulted internationally. What’s one mindset shift that helps leaders become more data-driven?
Philippa Gamse: Let the data speak for itself. Politics still exists in business. Sometimes, the highest-paid person’s opinion (the HIPPO) dominates, even when they’re wrong. Show them the data. If something isn’t working and you can quantify the potential losses, it’s easier to get buy-in for change. Trusting the data is a critical mindset shift.
Harley Green: How often should business leaders look at their website data? Daily, weekly?
Philippa Gamse: It depends. If you’re launching products or running ads, monitor it closely. Social media ad performance often under-delivers, so watch it. If things are stable, you can check less often. Tailor your cadence to what’s going on in your business.
Harley Green: I’ve heard of situations where ad companies and analytics data don’t align. That can really affect trust and accountability.
Philippa Gamse: Absolutely. Analytics gives you visibility and helps hold vendors accountable. If you’re investing in ads, you need to know if they’re delivering results.
Harley Green: For someone underusing their website, what’s one action they can take this week?
Philippa Gamse: If you’re not using analytics, get them installed—otherwise, you’re flying blind. If you are using them, use them to answer meaningful questions. Don’t just glance at traffic spikes and assume everything’s fine. Be strategic—pick a few key goals and measure how well your site supports them.
Harley Green: Excellent strategic tips today, Philippa. If people want to connect or learn more about your book, where should they go?
Philippa Gamse: The book is called Website Wealth: A Business Leader’s Guide to Driving Real Value from Your Analytics. It’s jargon-free, full of stories and examples. My website is WebsitesThatWin.com, and I’m happy to connect on LinkedIn.
Harley Green: Thank you again. We’ll have those links in the show notes. If you got value from this episode, hit like and subscribe so you don’t miss future strategies to help you scale smarter. Share this episode with a colleague who needs to hear it. And if you’re on a podcast platform, leave us a quick rating—it helps more business leaders find the show. Thanks for tuning in!
How to Build a Personal Brand That Converts with Erik Cabral
Your personal brand is more than just a logo or a tagline — it’s the foundation of your business growth. In a recent episode of Scale Smart, Grow Fast podcast, Harley Green sat down with Erik Cabral, founder of OnAir Brands, to talk about how entrepreneurs can harness clarity, podcasting, and mission-driven branding to create lasting impact.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Why Clarity is Non-Negotiable
Erik’s first lesson is simple but powerful: clarity creates momentum. Many entrepreneurs suffer from shiny object syndrome — chasing too many ideas at once and burning out. Instead, Erik advises narrowing your focus: define who you are, who you serve, and what problem you solve. Without clarity, your message won’t connect, and your brand won’t convert.
Personal Brand as the Umbrella
If you run multiple businesses or projects, your personal brand becomes the umbrella. Erik points to leaders like Elon Musk and Tony Robbins, whose personal brands open doors for all their ventures. By building your brand DNA around your values and mission, you allow your audience to connect with you first, making it easier to introduce new offers, services, or businesses later.
Podcasting: The Ultimate Growth Tool
According to Erik, podcasting is more than content — it’s a networking and growth engine. Instead of “picking someone’s brain over coffee,” podcasting allows you to lead with value by giving guests a platform to share their message. It’s also a long-term play: success comes not from three episodes, but from consistent creation and commitment.
To stay sustainable, Erik emphasizes systems and delegation. Entrepreneurs should focus on their strengths and eventually outsource editing, design, and promotion — freeing time to run the business while the podcast works as a powerful marketing channel.
Turning Clients into Brand Champions
Your best marketing asset is often your satisfied clients. Erik encourages entrepreneurs to turn happy customers into brand champions by collecting testimonials, referrals, and even co-created stories. These champions amplify your message and build credibility far faster than ads or self-promotion.
Faith, Mission, and Erik’s Book
Erik’s journey also highlights the importance of a mission bigger than yourself. His book, Be Your Brand to Glorify God, reframes personal branding as a way to serve others and lead with values, not ego. For him, success is about creating impact through service — and entrepreneurs can do the same by aligning their brand with purpose.
Key Takeaways for Entrepreneurs
Clarity comes first: Define your mission, audience, and values.
Personal brand > business brand: Build trust in you, then extend it to your ventures.
Podcast strategically: Use it for value, networking, and long-term growth.
Delegate smartly: Free your time by outsourcing tactical tasks.
Turn influence into opportunity: Leverage testimonials and client stories to scale credibility.
🚀 Ready to build a brand that converts? Start by defining your values with Erik’s free Core Values Worksheet at www.beyourbrandNOW.com.
🔹 Your business can only grow as clear as your brand. Don’t let busywork hold you back from building influence and opportunity. Schedule a free discovery call with Workergenix today and learn how to delegate smarter so you can focus on growing your personal brand
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript
Harley Green: All right, hey guys, welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. Your personal brand is one of your most powerful business assets, if you know how to use it. In this episode, Erik Cabral, founder of OnAir Brands and trusted advisor to Fortune 100 and Inc 5000 companies, shares how to craft a message that connects, build a brand that converts, and leverage podcasting to grow your business. With over 25 years in brand strategy, Erik’s going to offer a proven mission-driven framework for turning clarity into momentum and influence into opportunity. Erik, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. How are you doing today?
Erik Cabral: Fantastic, Harley. Thank you so much for having me.
Harley Green: It’s our pleasure. Now, Erik, tell us a little bit more about your background. How did you get into marketing and doing podcasting?
Erik Cabral: Yeah, it was not by design for sure. Corporate America and school, traditional college and finding my way up the corporate ladder was a wonderful way to make a living. Creating artwork and logos in the beginning, very early stages of my career, was my first. I’ll never forget, Harley, a postcard — like a four by six postcard that was going to go direct mail. They called it that for all the kids out there who don’t remember mail. But yeah, you would get these postcards and I was like, “Mom, look,” and I took a stack of them. I was like, “Look, my first printout, there are hundreds of thousands of these out there.” And then eventually the coolest thing was seeing my work on billboards driving down a highway. I would see, “Look, I designed that billboard. How cool.” So that was really my background. I just loved designing, loved graphic design. At the time they called it commercial arts and people would ask, “What’s that?” But eventually all these tools became more and more familiar — Adobe and all these guys. And when I finally left after 21 years in corporate America, I was so done. I wanted to retire, at least from the art world. And I got into, of all things, real estate investing. And my wife was like, “You don’t know anything about real estate. What are you talking about? What are you doing?”
Harley Green: You.
Erik Cabral: And I was like, I just want to build wealth. I was in a wealth creation phase of my life. And I was very focused on how can I get there very quickly. You know, I lost 20 years not knowing anything about finance, being financially illiterate. And I was like, “Oh, I read this book from Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad Poor Dad,” and then eventually read Cash Flow Quadrant. I was like, “Oh, wait a minute.” In this quadrant he’s talking about the employee, which was me for the majority of my years. And then it was like, now you need to own a business or become an investor. So there were all these different avenues. I was like, I want to own a business and I want to become an investor. And I want to make passive income. So that’s really where it all started. And once I jumped into the investing community, I realized that the one thing that they had in common was an abundant mindset. And I came from the opposite — completely scarcity-minded environment where it was dog-eat-dog, everybody was just against each other. And it was really bizarre to be around people that wanted to help you. Especially the most successful people would always end the conversation with, “How can I help you? How can I provide more value in your life?” And that was the game changer. And I just said, I need to be around these people and I need to record these conversations I’m having in the hallways for my sake, so I can remember these conversations and just extract value out of it. And that turned into a podcast and people started to point to me like the guy recording a conversation as the podcast guy. And it wasn’t necessarily a podcast at the time. So that’s really where it all started.
Harley Green: I love that growth and transition and especially the abundance mindset. And it really has shown through in your success and how you’ve helped others too now. Speaking of that, you’ve helped build so many brands. What would you say is the first thing you look for when helping someone define their personal or business brand?
Erik Cabral: The first thing I look for is how much clarity they have. A lot of us can have all these ideas, but they’re not very focused. If you have a lot of great ideas and a lot of what we call in the entrepreneurial world shiny object syndrome, then your focus and lack of clarity will spread you thin. I was guilty of this for sure because I started four companies out of the gate. I was so excited to be out there, Harley. I was like, I’m going to create a real estate empire, then I’m going to build a media agency, then I’m going to have an event company and a coaching company. Literally all these things I was doing at the same time thinking that was cool, that was trendy, that hustle-and-grind mentality. And it didn’t serve me. It really hurt me in the long term. Now, I benefited greatly from it for sure because it made for a lot of connections. All the people that you may have mentioned in my bio were a result of me creating all that. But it was a quick avenue to burnout. There was no way I was going to sustain that. So eventually over the years, I had to shut down one, two, three and eventually all the companies so I could focus on one. So that’s the first thing I look for when I speak to an entrepreneur who’s all over the place: What are we focusing on? What do you have complete clarity on? And who do you serve? Like who is the audience for that particular product that you have? Because yes, I understand successful entrepreneurs have four, five, six businesses and they’re running them all successfully. But for this particular one, what is the message? What is the clear mission? And who does it help? That is typically the very first thing that I look for.
Harley Green: How do you help other entrepreneurs that you’re working with who might be in that same situation you were in, with the hustle culture of, “I’m going to do four or five different businesses because that’s cool”? How do you help walk them back from that and get that clarity?
Erik Cabral: I’m a huge proponent of your personal brand and ensuring that if you have multiple businesses, even more so the reason you should focus on your personal brand. Because then everything sits and falls under that umbrella. Let’s take Elon Musk, for example. He’s got The Boring Company, Tesla, the solar company — multiple companies. Same thing with Tony Robbins. I think he always boasts, he’s like, “I’m running 186 businesses right now.” He literally has tons of businesses that he’s involved in. But the umbrella of Tony Robbins is what sits at the top: his personal brand. So I always try to encourage our clients or prospects who have multiple businesses and want to talk about everything — if you want to do that, and you don’t want to take my advice, let’s build a personal brand that has its own systems and your beliefs so that people can fall in love with you. And then when they’re ready, they’re going to raise their hand and go, “Hey, Harley, I love when you talk about family. I love when you talk about homeschooling,” whatever it is that you want to talk about that clearly identifies who you are so they can identify with those values. Now they’re like, “I didn’t know you had this type of company. I didn’t know you had that type of company.” It opens the door for the conversation. So when they’re ready, they want to do business with you — the person, not the company.
Harley Green: Speaking of that personal brand, is it more important to focus on your personal mission and values, or do you help people think more about the ideal client they want to connect with? Do you tailor it to resonate with them, or is there some kind of in-between?
Erik Cabral: Our process is typically to really boil down who you are, because a lot of people you’d be surprised don’t know who they are. Or if they do, they’ve never verbalized it and they’ve never put them into single-word values, which helps them to communicate. That’s what we’re all about: we have to communicate and we have to communicate clearly. Because if we don’t understand our mission and how we serve people, then how are others supposed to understand as well? So we have to gain clarity first and then we can help and serve more people. For example, I have tons of people in my network that love to do cold plunges, heat therapy, all this biohacking. But say they’re real estate investors, and then they’ll often come to me and go, “Erik, man, everybody’s reaching out to me. I’m getting so much feedback. But why is everybody asking me how to build a cold plunge in their garage?” And then I look at their feed and I’m like, “Because all you’re doing is talking about cold plunge therapy.” Is that what you want to do? Do you want to build a lifestyle business brand? “No, I’m a real estate investor.” Then stop talking about the things you don’t want to serve or solve. So that’s the biggest challenge. I want to make sure our clients, number one, know who they are and what the brand DNA is for them. And then we can really dive into who they serve.
Harley Green: Well, and speaking of that clarity and who you serve, what are some other common branding mistakes that even smart businesses make and how can they fix them?
Erik Cabral: It’s this — where they try to create a message for everybody. That’s a huge one. Especially if you’re coming out of the gate as a new entrepreneur, you don’t want to alienate or push out potential buyers, customers, or clients. And I get that, I was the same way. But at some point, you’re going to have enough case studies and enough wins where you can start to identify the common thread throughout all of the people that you’ve been helping. For instance, years down the line after we started producing a lot of podcasts, I zoomed out and then looked at all the clients. I was like, “Oh, they’re all men. They’re all middle-aged. They’re all family men. A lot of them are Christians.” I was like, this is my avatar. These are the guys who I’ve been creating podcasts and serving over the past three, four years. So then that became one of our avatars. I can speak directly to that person to the point where I’ve given them a name. I know what they eat. I know what they do on their time off. I know what type of cars they drive. Those are the type of things where we can get really granular so that when you do record and you do create messages, you’re speaking specifically to the person you know you can help.
Harley Green: Speaking of speaking to the person you can help — podcasting is obviously a huge part of your strategy. Why do you see it as such a powerful tool for brand building and business growth?
Erik Cabral: Gosh. When I started not too long ago in 2017, it was still, “Hey, can I take you out for a cup of coffee, Harley, and pick your brain?” And when I started building my real estate portfolio, it wasn’t just kids or younger people. It was anyone that saw me having success relatively quickly. They’d say, “He bought a multifamily building in less than a year.” So people were asking me out to coffee. It got to the point where I was like, let’s just have a call. And then I started to look up to others as well. Like, how did you get there? I want to get to 24 units, I want to get to 100 doors. And I would ask for their time. But coffee is never really that enticing. But a podcast is — “Would you be interested in having a conversation on my podcast?” At the time I could confidently say it was 100% yes. Everyone would say yes to that. It’s such a wonderful opportunity for you to lead with value and say, “Hey, I have a platform for you to speak your message to my community” versus “You want to have coffee?” where I’m just pulling knowledge from you but not really giving any value back. Podcasting is such a great vehicle for creating value for others and putting it out there. Everybody wins with a podcast.
Harley Green: With podcasting and someone building their personal brand, do you have a recommendation or guidelines when it comes to deciding whether to have your own podcast, do the podcast guesting circuit, or a combination of both? How do you help people navigate that?
Erik Cabral: A combination is the best strategy. But the question comes down to bandwidth — how much time do you have? Starting a podcast is easy, but it’s also hard. In 2021, we had the biggest spike in creating podcasts for our clients. Everybody wanted a podcast after 2020. Everyone was bored at home. And then it went down. In 2022, podfade is what we call it. People don’t make it past three months or 12 episodes. What I find is that podcasts can be easy to start — low-hanging fruit — but really challenging and difficult to maintain because people lack systems, processes, and teams. If you’re a solopreneur, at some point you’re going to have to pass this off to a team, whether you develop your own or hire a company like ours. Podcasts are a long-term play. You can’t go in and say, “I’m gonna start a podcast for three to six months and see how it goes.” No, you have to commit. Just like YouTube — you have to commit to 100 videos before you see the fruit that comes from all that hard work and energy you’re pouring in. So yes, go in with a long-term mindset, have a budget for it, and don’t wing it. Develop systems and processes if you’re doing it yourself so that you can document and pass this off to an editor because it’s not sustainable otherwise. You need to run your business in order to have success, but the podcast can be used to support that. The podcast has to lead with value and entertainment. Information is abundant everywhere, but if you can be entertaining and bring your unique perspective, that’s what draws people in.
Harley Green: So when someone knows they’re good, they’ve heard you say, “It’s not easy, you have to stick with it,” but it’s still hard — what are some tips or strategies you offer people to stick with podcasting for the long term and not burn out or get bored of it?
Erik Cabral: Looking for unrealistic results can really deter you long term. Instead, flip the coin and say, “Who can I help and who can I serve?” Look for those stories and opportunities when you’re creating your content. For example, years into my podcast journey, a listener reached out to me. He shared, “Thank you for sharing the story about how you had to fold one of your companies because I am in the process of doing that and I’m alone. I felt like such a loser, and hearing you — who I see as a success — made me feel like there’s a community. Thank you.” I still live off the fumes of that conversation. That’s the value I’m providing. If it helped one person, imagine all the people who didn’t reach out. Always take those stories, put them in your back pocket, and use them as fuel to continue on your journey. It’s not about ROI, it’s about who you are helping, who you are serving, and how you’re inspiring people to keep going even when it feels hard.
Harley Green: I love that story of getting feedback and how it’s still motivating you today. I get the same thing — random texts from someone in my network who I had no idea was listening to the podcast, saying, “Really loved that episode with Erik, talking about these things.” So I encourage all of you listening to podcasts — shoot a text or an email to the host of the podcast you’re listening to. It goes so far and helps keep the podcasts you like and support going. It’s an amazing thing. So really appreciate you bringing that part up, Erik.
Erik Cabral: So true. Yeah.
Harley Green: Talking about the effort that goes into these podcasts — it can be very time-consuming, not just the number of episodes but also processing, managing guests, editing, publishing, promoting. At what point do you typically see it makes sense to start handing off some of that process to a service like yours, or maybe an assistant?
Erik Cabral: If you have a budget, figure out what that is. In our intake form, we try to figure out if clients qualify to work with us or if we can serve them at the highest value. We’re $2,500 a month at minimum, with other services above that. At minimum, I need to know if you have $30,000 to invest annually in what we do. If not, it may be best for you to hire a bunch of VAs to do this, whether they’re $5 to $8 an hour. But make sure you check their work carefully. Everyone’s going to say they have editing skills and design skills. Ask for samples. Some people have even sent me our own work as their sample. Get referrals, ensure that the work is truly theirs. If you build your own team, you’ll need at least someone skilled in editing videos — that’s a different beast — and someone skilled in design. Not just basic Canva design, but someone who can make it shine. If you’re just starting out, don’t let polish hold you back. Figure out what your budget is, even if it’s $100 a month. Find someone to help you and start to take those little things off your plate so you can focus on building your business, doing sales, and doing marketing versus tactical tasks.
Harley Green: One thing you talk about is building brand champions — people who can amplify the message. What’s your take on that and how can companies do that intentionally?
Erik Cabral: Brand champions develop over time when you continue to serve your clients at the highest possible level. Those are basically your testimonials and case studies. Whenever you go to someone that you served and ask, “How did I do?” and they say, “You’re amazing,” that’s the perfect opportunity to say, “Hey, can I get a testimonial from you? Can you record something really quick, like right here and say that again?” And then from there, you start to realize you can actually leverage that to become a brand champion for you. Because then you can continue to ask them, “Do you know anyone like you that needs our services? Do you know anyone like you that could help us grow?” For sure they love you, right? And you’ve probably given them super discounts. Typically, in the earlier stages of business, they’re getting a really good deal, they’re grandfathered in so to speak. Those are the brand champions you want to continue to build. Just love on them, continue to serve beyond the agreement that you had, and it will happen over time for sure.
Harley Green: If someone hasn’t been really thinking about or familiar with this concept of brand champions, but they’ve been established for a few years and have some clients, what’s a good way to try to bring that up with clients who might be happy but haven’t come forward yet? Or if they did come forward in the past and the business wasn’t ready to capture that appropriately, what would you suggest?
Erik Cabral: If it’s a client that is no longer your client, you can still reach out. Reach out to a bunch of them and say, “Hey, I’m looking to grow my business. If you enjoyed working together, would you mind referring someone like you that we can help?” And then if you do that enough, someone will hopefully be willing to record a testimonial for you or at the very least, write a review. Here’s another hack: I’ll write the testimonials for some of my clients that I know are super busy — in their voice. This was before AI, but now you could really do it with AI. You can say, “Write a review of my services in their voice.” You can even take a blog article or something they’ve written and put it into ChatGPT, and then it’ll draft it. Keep it short, just a sentence or two, and then send it over to them. For example, in my book I have six quotes, of which only one I had to do this for. I knew him very well, and I said, “Hey Rami, I know you’re busy. I know you’ve been meaning to do this. I did it for you. Here are three options all in your voice.” He looked at them, said, “These are great,” and made some edits. It got him started, and it lit the fire. People have even done that for me — they’ll say, “Hey Erik, here’s a review I wrote in your voice.” That’s when I realized, wow, this is effective and really helpful.
Harley Green: That’s a smart hack. Well, you mentioned your book, Erik. Tell us a little bit more about it.
Erik Cabral: Three years ago, I committed to writing a book. I signed up with Chandler Bolt’s Self-Publishing School. It was a $5K program; I didn’t do the $10K option where they handle everything. What they gave me was a monthly coach and access to a library of content. But I realized monthly coaching wasn’t my thing. I sat on it for three years, and the real issue was I didn’t feel interesting or worthy enough to write the book. Every time I read it, I thought it was terrible. It was all about me. But through my faith journey, I realized personal branding doesn’t have to be egocentric. In Christianity, it’s not about us — it’s about God. So I shifted the whole theme of the book to glorify Him, not me, and everything started to flow. I wrote the book in less than 24 hours after that realization. The book is called Be Your Brand to Glorify God. It’s about building your personal brand and company around your mission to serve — just like Jesus did when He washed His disciples’ feet. In business, we should do the same: love on our clients, serve them, and make the world better. The book is about giving Him the glory, not building for our own egos.
Harley Green: That’s powerful. Thank you so much for sharing these incredible tips and strategies, your story, and your book as well. If people want to learn more about you or get a copy of the book, what’s the best way for them to get in touch?
Erik Cabral: For sure. Go to www.beyourbrandNOW.com. You can see the book there, and you can actually download a free core values worksheet we mentioned earlier — a simple exercise to start identifying your core values so you can put them out into the world. That’s at www.beyourbrandNOW.com.
Harley Green: Awesome. For those of you listening, we’ll have the link in the show notes. If you got value from this episode, do one quick thing: hit like and subscribe so you don’t miss future strategies to help you scale smarter. And maybe you know a business owner or colleague who could use this information — share the episode with them. It could be exactly what they need right now. And if you’re listening on a podcast platform, leave us a quick rating. It helps us reach more leaders like you. As always, thank you for tuning in. We’ll see you on the next one.
Why Your Team is the Key to Scaling — Not Your Tech
When we think about scaling a business, most of us instinctively reach for tools—new systems, faster software, smarter automation. But what if the real bottleneck isn’t your tech… it’s your team?
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
In a powerful conversation on the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast, international speaker and human behavior strategist Carly Pepin shared a wake-up call for growth-stage leaders:
“Your company can only scale as fast as your people are aligned to it.”
🚨 The Problem: Systems Are Outpacing People
Carly sees it all the time—startups and scaling companies with optimized systems but disjointed teams. What’s the result?
Internal miscommunication
Burnout at every level
High-performing people checking out or walking out
The biggest red flag? When your employees are clocking in and out with zero enthusiasm—and you’re constantly frustrated with the pace or quality of execution.
🔑 The Solution: People First, Systems Second
Tech doesn’t run your business—your people do. Carly explains that true scale happens when leaders focus on:
Getting the right people in the right seats
Linking roles to individual values
Training and developing people, not just tech stacks
Even with limited resources, there are countless ways to elevate your team. Whether it’s leveraging low-cost platforms like Lynda.com or bringing in guest speakers, continuous education fuels engagement.
🧠 Use Behavior Insights to Drive Performance
Tools like DISC assessments and Carly’s Values Determination process help leaders understand not just how people work—but why.
When employees see how their daily tasks connect to what matters most to them, their engagement shifts dramatically. Carly’s team workshops even help people see how something as mundane as data entry contributes to personal goals like health or travel.
⏰ When to Start Delegating? Sooner Than You Think
Burnout doesn’t mean your business is broken—it means you’re doing too much. Carly advises leaders to:
Track your time vs. value
Stop doing $15/hour tasks if your time is worth $500/hour
Delegate before burnout costs you momentum—or your top performers
🎯 Leadership Isn’t Just Strategy — It’s Psychology
At the core of Carly’s message is this:
“People aren’t lazy—they’re uninspired.”
If your best people are disengaged, misaligned, or overwhelmed, no system or strategy will compensate. The real growth starts when leaders build a culture where people can thrive—not just survive.
At Workergenix, we help growth-focused founders and leaders align their people with their mission — so scaling doesn’t come at the cost of burnout or bottlenecks.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript
Harley Green: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. You know, when systems outpace the people behind them, growth breaks down. In this episode, Carly Pepin, international speaker and consultant shares why sustainable scale begins with your team, not just your tech. Drawing from deep expertise in human behavior and strategic growth, Carly is going to reveal how leaders can align mindset, roles, and execution to build high performing teams that thrive under pressure and drive real results. Carly, welcome to the podcast. How are you today?
Carly Pepin: I’m good. Thank you for having me, Harley.
Harley Green: It’s our pleasure. Carly, maybe you can share a little background story of like what brought you to what you’re doing today and helping businesses in this area.
Carly Pepin: Yeah, so I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs. So I’ve been around entrepreneurship for quite some time. And it’s been something where you have the option to, you know, I had the option. I didn’t love school. I would actually ditch school and go to work where I got to manage a surf shop and they taught me a lot of stuff. So my parents at a certain point said, well, maybe we help you start your first business as opposed to going to college because you seem to really enjoy this. So that was my college education instead, and I really enjoyed it. It didn’t work out, business is business, but it was really quite an inspiring experience. After that, I just had the opportunity to work in these other small businesses where I would help them to scale and grow. And I just remember at a certain point, I was like, why am I not doing this for myself? I just keep doing this for other people. Why am I not doing this for myself? And that’s when I decided to really get into it and go into more of the coaching and consulting version.
Harley Green: Awesome. Now, one thing you’ve mentioned is when systems scale faster than people, that businesses stall. What does that look like in real life and why is it such a common problem?
Carly Pepin: Yeah, so basically what’ll wind up happening is when our business is scaling at an exponential rate, but we’re not actually, our people aren’t prepared for it, then they don’t actually know how to step into it. They don’t know what to do. And we see it on the backend of these companies that are the startups, right? These crazy startups that are like, we got to do this. We got to make this money really fast. I’ve got to work with a lot of executive teams in those. They’re going crazy on the backend. They’re trying to keep up. The communication on the back end isn’t actually functioning, working. Everyone’s not quite sure where they’re going and what they’re doing. Because usually that main focus is actually just creating the finances, but there’s no real other goal that’s tangible and everyone else is connected to. And so it’s really interesting. It’s not that you can’t scale quickly, but if you’re not scaling quickly while putting the systems in place to make sure the people are connected to what’s going on, they’re very confused and it just becomes a mess on the back end of people trying to figure out what’s going on, where they’re going, are they actually doing the right thing, like are they achieving the right thing, and they often just show up and get the job done. So it becomes a bit chaotic.
Harley Green: What are some of the typical indicators that someone is in that situation that they might keep an eye out for and realize, hey, it doesn’t actually have to be this way?
Carly Pepin: Yeah, you’re also going to be frustrated with your employees because they’re not getting things done the way that you would love to get them done. Maybe things are stalling. Maybe things are kind of getting stuck in a bottleneck that you haven’t even quite seen where the bottleneck is yet. But your employees are also going to be frustrated. You’ll have complaints. You’ll have them not wanting to be around, clocking in and clocking out at the exact same time every day, trying to get as many breaks in as possible. I mean, you’re going to see them disengage because their job sucks right now, basically. It is what it is. Technically, they constantly are saying they want good employees and good employees, but you get good employees when you create a great environment for them to be in, and then you have people who are inspired to be there. So really pay attention to your people. If they’re not engaged and they’re not actually enthusiastic to be there every day, something’s going on within your company, and it’s really important to check out what’s happening and what’s going on and see how things are actually moving forward. Is everyone truly aligned? Does every department know how to communicate with each other, connect with each other? Do they know how to incorporate and integrate with each other? Is that something that you’re even working towards? Otherwise, again, it’s very, very, very difficult. Things can be challenging.
Harley Green: I love that having inspired employees when you create that right environment. Now, a lot of times people when they’re getting started, they often are looking more at like their tech stack and maybe the systems rather than investing in their people. Why would you say leaders often are going down this path and not as focused on people?
Carly Pepin: We forget that the people run the tech, genuinely. That’s it. People are going to run the tech. So you want great people and you want to be able to train them. I mean, we see this coming forward with AI to such a great degree. AI is still going to be run by people. The people are going to manage AI. So if you’re wanting to incorporate AI into your systems, it’s also helping to get the training for your people to make sure that they’re running it like to the best degree possible. AI only works as good as its end user and we are the end user. And so we forget that sometimes, like technology is quite powerful and it’s very important, but if you’re not empowering your team to use the technology, the technology becomes worthless. So that’s a really important dynamic. And remembering just to focus on both. You focus on both. Most of the clients that I have, they have educational departments, one of them is really fun. Just, actually starting like their own university within the company because education is such a big deal to them and they’re going to give credits and all these extra bonuses and stuff for their employees who go and take the extra time to do some of these courses and studies and read books. It’s very cool and it’s a very powered group. People really want to work there. They love working there. It’s great. So it’s that dynamic too. It’s like your technology, your company, every system that you have is only as powerful as the people in it. And so it’s like, what are you doing to actually make sure that your people are also staying ahead of the curve, not just your company.
Harley Green: Yeah. For those listening that maybe feel like they don’t have the resources, whether it’s time or finances to like set up that kind of internal university to help educate their employees. What are some other options that they could consider to help keep their employees trained, educated and inspired?
Carly Pepin: Yeah, absolutely. Ask your employees too what they’re interested in. I’m going to give you an example of a larger company, but we’ll do some smaller examples too. But I remember one of our clients, he worked at a big telecommunications company and he loves personal development. And so he just started communicating with the executive team in the company and wound up building an entire personal development unit. And he puts on workshops and he puts on events and stuff within the company, right? So it’s available if you ask. Then there’s the other dynamic. If you’re a smaller company, it’s like, well, how do I do that? You can still bring in guest speakers. You might not get the best of the best and the craziest speaker out there, but you can still get local speakers who are quite intelligent and quite informed and bring people in at a significantly lower cost to your employees. You can have them do smaller workshops. Again, there’s lower cost ones, there’s higher cost ones. And then there’s also the dynamic of online learning. There are so many different options. I’m pretty sure lynda.com is highly affordable. I haven’t used it in quite some time, but I remember back in the day, I had one employee who would give us basically like training through that program. And it was really helpful because he just wanted us to excel and then we would utilize that system to be able to excel. When I went to another company, I was like, hey, let’s use this. And she brought it into our system as well. And the employees really appreciated having the extra education, just having access to something like that. And there’s larger courses too you can take. The Harvard Business School Online, they have stuff. There’s a ton of online universities now that are doing a lot of different business courses and classes. So when we think about it, the possibilities are endless. Even the DISC, DISC is pretty cool too, because I’m a DISC facilitator. But a lot of the individuals who are in the DISC facilitation were actually part of companies that just wanted the person who was really inspired by it within the company to lead instead of bringing someone on the outside. So there’s so many different options of how we can educate our people at so many different price levels. And sometimes it’s you, by the way. One of my clients loves teaching. Obsessed. So he is the teacher. He learns it and then he actually does mini workshops with his teams that are usually about three hours and his team loves it and they’ll dive in and they actually stay late and it’s really funny because they love it so much that sometimes it goes way beyond the normal time and he’s like I could keep going. Are you guys okay? Because it’s getting really late and they’re like, yeah. Keep going. And it’s like, okay. That’s how much they enjoy it. So there’s also that option too. If you love teaching, like you could be the one to do it.
Harley Green: Absolutely. Well, Carly, you mentioned DISC. Can you maybe explain what that is to our audience that maybe hasn’t heard of that before?
Carly Pepin: Yeah, DISC is a personality assessment profile. I really enjoy it. I like it because there’s a lot of personality assessment profiles, but I do not believe in boxing ourselves up into one box. So the thing that I love about DISC is I’ll focus on individuals utilizing it specifically for their workplace environment to see how you show up in the workplace so that you can figure out how to integrate yourself with other people, how to communicate better, how to go through conflict better. It’s really actually important in businesses to be able to be conflictual. That’s one of the things that I do a lot of training on because if you’re just showing up every day and being a yes person, a lot of stuff is going to fall through the cracks, and your executive team is going to appreciate the no person to a greater degree. But being able to understand how to communicate to people because everyone has these different personality types is really helpful. But like I said, I love it because in a sense where we do have these specific personality types that we show up as, that’s not always who we are. We technically are every part of that system, like we display everything and we just might have something more prominent at work than we have at home. So I like that it’s very clear on that human behavior side. So it’s been one of the tools that I’ve been able to utilize to help individuals, employees, leadership teams kind of come together in the workplace to a greater degree and understand each other. I’ve really enjoyed it.
Harley Green: So speaking of human behavior, what are some additional ways that understanding the human behavior can help the leadership team scale more sustainably?
Carly Pepin: Yeah, so when you understand who people are, what they do, what they love, what they appreciate kind of dynamic, there’s another assessment that I do, which I actually have on my website. So this one’s the values determination. And that’s the core understanding of who you are and what you invest the most time and energy in. It’s basically like our life purpose in a sense. So it’s a questionnaire to understand that dynamic. If you have someone who loves health and fitness and then they love their family, and they love traveling and you’re upset because they’re not engaged at work, well, do they even understand how their job is helping them with that? No, they don’t. They have no idea. And so part of that too is understanding what’s important to people. If I have someone who’s really invested in travel, and then I know that they love travel, they’re obsessed with travel, and I have an opportunity within the company that they could go travel and there’s a job for that. I’m gonna put them in there. I’m gonna say, hey, what do you think about this? Is this like a job for you? And so it’s kind of understanding what’s important to people because that person who loves travel will be most engaged in the thing that they love. And it’s really quite fascinating because we think people are lazy, but people are not lazy. People are lazy when they don’t feel inspired to be doing what they’re doing. So if you don’t understand your people and you don’t know where to put them to understand what they’re actually truly great at, you have the wrong people in the wrong seats. And so you really want to work on understanding people, understanding their strengths, understanding their personality, so you can get them in the right seats. Because once you put them in the right seat, they’re the best employee on the planet and even better, they love what they’re doing. Because that’s the kicker. I’ve been at companies where you walk in and people hate their jobs and they hate what they’re doing. And I actually, I mean, I really love business and I love working. So working in those companies was hard for me because even if it was a volatile environment, I still was enjoying my job and I couldn’t get things done. There are companies that I left because I was frustrated that I couldn’t get things done. The other employees were so disengaged that they hated their jobs. I’d go and I’d be like, this is the thing, this is the goal. Why are we not working towards this? I don’t want to. I don’t want to be here, all this crap. And I would quit because of those reasons. And so you’ll have people, you’ll have an A player and they’re not going to stay. No A player will ever stay in that company because they want to reach the goal. They want to get it done. And I have multiple executives that I’ve worked with that have quit working at companies because they cannot go be high achievers in the company because other people are disengaged and not happy. So the importance of having, again, the right people and the right seats gets them inspired, which increases your cultural dynamic of having this really inspiring culture to work for. And then they become A players and you can attract more A players to come in because they’re high achievers. They want to get stuff done. And now they have a team around them that’s inspired to do so. It’s really important.
Harley Green: But it sounds like there could be situations where a leadership team might be considering letting someone go or being very frustrated with an employee because they are not performing. They feel like, hey, they’re not an A player, but it could just be a mismatch of those values and their personality. And there’s an opportunity for them to become an A player with the right role. What are some tips or strategies the leadership team can use, once they have the values and that behavior to help align those roles with those behaviors and values?
Carly Pepin: Yeah, and it’s to check in if someone’s really worth saving, too. There’s also some people that just don’t fit with the company. But if you’re looking at them and you’re like, we really like this person, but they’re not performing as we thought they would, it’s to check in and see why aren’t they performing. Ask them some questions. When I’m working with companies, we like to also put in KPIs to track on a regular basis, job scorecards and stuff so that you already have a lot of these answers. If you don’t have the answers, it’s actually checking in. They might have a gap within their job that they’re not understanding how to do something. It could be an educational component. It could be a technology component. It could be part of their team and that component. We don’t really know if you’re not tracking it. That’s why we suggest doing the job scorecards and we get those integrated so that you have that knowledge and information to see what the real gap is. Because if the real gap is the person and you’re like, but this person is really excelling when they’re connecting with this team, when they’re connecting with marketing, it’s like, well, why don’t we focus here and see what they can do in this department as opposed to putting them here. And then we check in with them too. You ask them the question, would this be inspiring to you? And usually it’s a yes. I just worked with someone who loved the company she worked with, loved the company she worked with, but she didn’t like the role they had given her. And they really liked having her as a teammate, but she was frustrated again, because she said, I just am not performing at the level I know I can. And I asked her, what would help you to perform that way? And she’s like, this job that they actually have available. This one’s wildly inspiring to me. I love this one. And I was like, okay. And then we sat there to position her to be able to apply for that job inside the company and negotiate her transforming from one position to another, which they genuinely let her do because at the core of it, she said, listen, I’m not doing as good of a job as I can do. I want to do better. It’s making me crazy. And when an employee comes to you and says that, you’re like, whoa, maybe we do give them the chance here. They want to do better. And so really paying attention to what’s important to them, where they’re excelling, what they’re amazing at and what they suck at in a sense. Because if we keep making them do stuff that they suck at, they’re just, they’re not going to excel. And sometimes they have extra things that they might’ve been hired for the thing that they’re inspired by, but you put on a ton of other things with them. So it’s having these check-ins and having these conversations to make sure that they’re also not overwhelmed and overburdened with things that they wouldn’t have even signed up for in the first place. It happens a lot. This is why when I’m working with companies, we put a lot of tracking dynamics in. In the beginning, companies tend to feel a bit overwhelmed because they’re like, this is so much to do. But at the end of it, once it becomes a habit and routine, like anything, it becomes a simplistic thing to put into place where you save so much time and energy later on and all these things that we’re talking about, you’re actually catching because you put the systems in to be like, hey, so-and-so has been performing quite well for quite some time, but now they’re starting to underperform. What’s the difference? We put them in charge of this project. They don’t like this project. They’ve actually been sharing they hate this project. Maybe this is not the project for them because the project’s not even doing that well. And so you can kind of track it and see what’s happening before you have to go back and do all this like crazy research and stuff. So that’s why we like to do a lot of tracking.
Harley Green: Yeah, I love tracking KPIs. My background’s engineering, so I love looking at the numbers there. You kind of touched on this a little bit—how can leaders balance the high performance expectations of their team members while still having a psychologically safe work environment for them so people don’t have that burnout or the stress?
Carly Pepin: Yeah, so this is also being realistic in a sense. Sometimes burnout happens because people are working too hard, too long of hours. Again, I see this a lot in startup companies, especially the ones with investors who want a certain amount of income by a certain deadline. It’s really high pressure. What ends up happening is you have people working seven days a week, 14 hours a day, and they get burnt out.
Part of this is, I get that that’s your goal, but you’re going to burn out your team and lose people regularly. There’s a lot of employee turnover in those companies. Funny enough, the solution is often: just hire more people. The cost of employee turnover is so high—look at the research, it’s comical how much it’s actually costing you. And if you look at how many employees you’re turning over because you’re overworking them, you’ll realize: we could have saved money by just hiring more people.
As the engineering brain, do your math. Sometimes just do your math because you might realize that’s the easier path. People also get burnt out for other reasons, like personal life challenges. We can’t have the unrealistic expectation that everyone’s going to be perfectly energized all the time. Some companies I work with invest in personal development for team members going through something tough, and it helps them come out stronger.
Another reason for burnout is lack of inspiration. If someone is uninspired by their role, they’re going to burn out even if the workload isn’t objectively huge. This goes back to putting people in the right seat, giving them work that energizes them. When you’re doing things you’re passionate about—even if it’s hard—you feel more energized.
That’s true for founders too. Most founders I work with get stuck in the weeds. One client just wanted to focus on the creative and the company’s future vision. So we removed everything else from her plate. Another loved sales—but only big deals. So we positioned him at the top, closing big deals, and delegated everything else. He lit up again.
Even at the executive level, if you’re not doing the things you love, you’ll burn out.
Harley Green: Yeah, you mentioned, you know, starting to delegate things. When would you say is the right time or some signs when it is time for that executive team or even those high performers that are in the right seats to start delegating or maybe time to get them like an executive assistant to handle some of those things to keep them in those zones that is what they really love doing?
Carly Pepin: It happens faster than people think, and it’s when the burnout comes. You’ll start to get burnt out by your business because you’re just doing too much and you’re managing too much. That’s when it’s really time to start getting people in to delegate to. It’s really important because if you get burnt out, you link it to the entire business when it’s not actually the entire business. It’s usually just a few things.
Then you’ll drop out of your entire business and slow things down. Business slows down, you’re not as engaged, and your vision gets farther and farther away. Instead, ask: What are the things that are burning me out? What do I not need to do anymore?
Sometimes what I’ll do if a client struggles to delegate is, we go through all the things they do in a day and we look at their hourly rate versus how much it would cost to actually replace that. And we realize they’re doing a minimum wage job—even though they make $500 to $1,000 an hour. We ask: If we brought someone in to handle this, and it freed you up to do high-value work, would that be worth it?
When it clicks, it’s like, why am I doing this? And I’m like, exactly. Let’s get you some help. And once they do, they get hooked—in a good way. They bring on an assistant, then an accountant, and next thing they’re like, “Why don’t we have a lawyer yet?” I had a client juggling lawsuits at a $60 million company with no legal help. I said, let’s fix that.
You start to delegate, and it frees you up to focus on the highest revenue activities. You’re not meant to be in the weeds. When burnout hits, it’s not a bad thing—it’s feedback. Ask yourself: What am I getting burnt out by? And how do I find a way to delegate that?
Harley Green: I love that. I remember a company I used to work for many years ago, one of the co-founders would be seen in the kitchen cleaning the fridge. And it was just like, you can hire a cleaner—there are so many other amazing things you could be doing for the company.
Harley Green: One question I had too— we talked about ownership and accountability a little bit earlier. I want to touch on that again. Do you have tips or strategies that you’ve seen work really well to foster true ownership and accountability within the team?
Carly Pepin: Yeah, absolutely. We actually have these group workshops we’ll do. Using the values determination questionnaire I mentioned earlier, we have the whole team fill that out. Then we have them list all their job responsibilities and connect how each one aligns with their personal values.
Let’s say someone’s doing data entry but they’re passionate about health and wellness. We’ll ask: How does doing data entry help you with your love of health and wellness? We’ll ask it over and over until they find an answer. And when they make that connection, their mindset shifts. It’s like seeing a part of the world they hadn’t seen before.
When your subconscious knows that your work is connected to what’s meaningful to you, it fuels inspiration. I remember the first time I learned this, I had to build furniture at a company I worked for, and I hated it. But I made that internal connection to how it helped my bigger purpose—and I actually started to enjoy it. I had a tear of inspiration while building furniture. No joke.
So when we do this in a team environment, people start seeing their tasks differently. We even tie it to the company’s mission. When people see how their day-to-day work contributes to their personal goals and the company’s mission, they feel more aligned. It’s really cool. We usually do that quarterly or bi-yearly.
Harley Green: Now for leaders who are feeling stuck or maybe unsure how to scale without burning out their teams, what would you say would be the first step they should take?
Carly Pepin: Definitely making sure they have the right people in the right seats. When you’re thinking about scaling, there are times when business is chill—but there are also sprints. You can’t avoid the hustle altogether.
But if someone’s inspired by what they’re doing, they’ll lean into that hustle. I saw this a lot in the fashion industry. It’s chaotic during certain seasons, but people who love their work aren’t complaining—they just show up and do it. They might say they’re tired, but they’re not resentful.
If they’re in the wrong seat, they’re going to burn out fast and pull back. I’ve seen great people slowly disengage and eventually leave because their role didn’t align with their strengths or passions—even if they loved the company. Your people are one of your most powerful tools.
Harley Green: Carly, thank you so much for sharing these valuable insights with our audience today. If people want to have their team be inspired and continue this conversation with you, what’s the best way for them to get in touch with you?
Carly Pepin: Yeah, so you can head on over to my website, which is westcoastgrowthadvisors.com. We have a couple of questionnaires on there that are really helpful. One is the values determination we talked about. The other gives you insight into where your team and culture might have gaps. It’s a great starting point.
Harley Green: Thank you so much. We’ll make sure we have all those links in the show notes. Now, if you got value from this episode, do one quick thing: hit like and subscribe so you don’t miss future strategies to help you scale smarter. And if you know a business owner or leader who could use this info, share this episode—it could be exactly what they need.
And if you’re listening on a podcast platform, leave us a quick rating. It helps us reach more leaders like you. Thanks for tuning in, and we’ll see you on the next one.
From Burnout to Breakthrough: The Mindset Shift Behind $100K Months
What happens when you’ve done everything right — invested in every course, joined the masterminds, bought all the tools — and you’re still not where you want to be?
For Sara Chevere, founder of She Prospers Her, that was her exact wake-up call after losing her entire Facebook ecosystem to a hack. Years of effort… gone in a moment.
But instead of spiraling, she took a hard look at her business. And what she saw changed everything.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
🎯 The Problem: Too Many Offers, Not Enough Clarity
Sara realized she was caught in what many entrepreneurs experience: doing more without getting further. Despite spending over $300,000 on trainings and certifications, her business lacked alignment, scalability, and a clear transformation.
Her breakthrough? Building a business around premium, high-value offers that are deeply aligned with her purpose — and deliver real transformation, fast.
🔑 The Key Shift: From Hustling to High-Value
Here’s what Sara now teaches entrepreneurs ready to grow:
✅ Premium offers > Low-ticket hustle. People want transformation — not another 12-month grind. Your offer should deliver clarity and results in a short, focused window.
✅ Clarity is Queen. You must be clear on your vision, values, audience, message, and offer. Without clarity, your energy is scattered, and your audience confused (and confused people don’t buy).
✅ Confidence comes from action. You don’t need to “feel ready” to charge more. If your offer solves a painful problem and delivers real results, it deserves a premium price.
✅ Your offer needs emotional resonance. People buy with emotion and justify with logic. Speak to their pain, their desire, and the freedom they’re looking for — not just your features.
⚙️ Systems That Scale Without Burnout
Sara’s delivery model is built around intensive transformation over extended time drain — like 2-3 day focused sessions with 90-day support. This high-touch, low-burn model gives both her and her clients freedom and results.
She also encourages entrepreneurs to hire help early — especially when they start hitting higher revenue months. Delegating low-value tasks creates space for true leadership.
💭 Final Thought: Burnout Isn’t the Badge of Success
If you’re tired of doing all the things and seeing minimal returns, this episode is a must-listen. Sara’s journey is proof that when you align your business with purpose, clarity, and premium value, success becomes not only possible — but sustainable.
🎁 Want to learn how to build premium offers that scale? Check out Sara’s free masterclass atSheProspersHer.com
🚀 Ready to scale smarter — not harder?
If you’re tired of doing everything yourself and know it’s time to step into real leadership, let’s talk.
👉 Schedule your FREE discovery call and find out how Workergenix can help you build the systems, team, and clarity you need to grow without burnout.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript
Harley Green: All right, everybody, welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. What if your offer did more than convert? It multiplied your profits while aligning with your purpose. In this episode, Sara Chevere, founder of She Prospers Her and visionary behind Women’s Table Global, shares how entrepreneurs can design and deliver premium offers that reflect their highest value. With over 17 years of coaching and a deep background in finance, Sara breaks down how to shift your message, offer and systems to unlock true wealth without burnout or compromise. Sara, welcome to the podcast. How are you today?
Sara Chevere: I am amazing, Harley. Thank you so much for having me here. I’m super excited to be chatting about this topic.
Harley Green: Love it. Sara, can you maybe elaborate a little bit more about your background, what’s brought you to what you’re doing today?
Sara Chevere: Well, here’s the thing. Last year, my Facebook account got hacked and I lost everything. I lost my personal Facebook account, my Facebook ads account—that’s how they got in because I was doing ads—and I lost my Facebook group. Basically, I lost my main point of improving, increasing, and attracting my audience. If it wasn’t for my email list, it would have been very different. But that gave me the opportunity to ask myself if the trajectory of what I was doing was really allowing me to reach my goal, my vision. Soon enough, I realized no, this was the slow path to where I wanted to go. So, I realized that I needed to find another way.
The other thing I did was account for all of the courses, programs, masterminds, certifications, trainings, and software that I had been involved in—the ones I finished and the ones I had not. Again, I realized that, my gosh, over $300,000 later, and I was not where I needed to be. That took me into a journey of finding a better way. That’s where She Prospers Her was born. I aligned with my vision. I don’t want to just play in the sandbox; I want to build the sandbox. That’s where I realized that the best way to grow and scale your business is through premium offers.
Harley Green: Premium offers. Tell us more about what the difference is between a premium offer versus what someone might have today.
Sara Chevere: There are a lot of entrepreneurs, coaches, and service-based businesses that offer one product and give one result. When you offer a premium offer, you offer high value and a transformation. People don’t have time to wait a whole year to get a transformation. We are in the AI era, things are happening quickly. This is a time when people want results now. I’ve been able to solidify and shorten the period where you can have that transformation in less than 90 days. With just two or three days of focused time, you can get everything you need to create a high-value, high-premium offer.
Harley Green: When we talk about the premium offer, how do you help people uncover that true value that they bring in their business?
Sara Chevere: There’s something I teach in my masterclass, which is the six C’s. I’ll mention a couple, because going through all would take too long. The first one is all about having clarity. That’s what I realized in my own case. The first step is having clarity with your vision, knowing whether what you’re doing is aligned with your priorities and values. Then, clarity on who your ideal client is. Who are you serving? And third, clarity on your message. Is it clear enough? I learned this from Russell Brunson: confused people never buy. Clarity equals consistent revenue. When you have a clear audience, a clear vision, a clear message, and a clear offer that provides a transformation, then you can scale. Clarity is queen.
Harley Green: Love it. Speaking of clarity, we talk about clarity, alignment, vision, and purpose of the entrepreneur. How can they ensure that their offer supports both personal fulfillment and profitability?
Sara Chevere: It’s funny that you mention that because I was just coaching one of my clients this week. One of the questions I asked was: what transformation do you provide that makes you happy? You have to be excited about what you do. That could be a great question for the audience: what is the value, the result, the breakthrough, and the transformation you provide to your audience that really gets you excited?
Harley Green: Yeah, excitement’s really important in staying motivated and having momentum too. Now, part of having the premium offer you talk about is also pricing the service higher. What are some of the mindset shifts and strategy shifts that are required to confidently price at a premium?
Sara Chevere: I was thinking about this the other day. A lot of people lack confidence and think they need to work on confidence before offering premium services. Yes, there’s some internal work involved, but the main thing is action. Take action and be clear about your offer. It’s not about you; it’s about the offer and the high value you’re providing. If your message and offer can deliver transformation and you’re actively sharing it with the world, that builds confidence. Take action even if it’s imperfect. Keep showing up. Consistency makes a difference.
Harley Green: Speaking of taking action, what are some first steps you recommend people take when working on improving their offer?
Sara Chevere: The first thing I teach is to understand your audience’s pain points. What keeps them up at night? What makes them cry in the shower? What has them eating ice cream in the kitchen? Once you understand those pain points, define the result you provide. People care about their transformation. They want to know how you’ll take their pain away and give them what they’ve been looking for.
Harley Green: Once they have a solid offer in place, what kind of systems or processes are essential to scale the delivery without sacrificing their quality?
Sara Chevere: One of my secrets is using masterclasses or challenges. Some people prefer challenges, others prefer one focused session. Decide what your audience prefers, or alternate. From there, lead them to an event where they can be 100% focused on their transformation. Then offer support—90-day or longer, depending on your niche. For example, in weight loss, people may need longer support. But those two or three-day intensives really set them up for success. It’s high-touch and high-value without taking over your life. It gives you quality of life and fulfillment.
Harley Green: That’s really important. Now, messaging is a major part of your work. What are some of the common mistakes you see when entrepreneurs are trying to communicate their value through the offer?
Sara Chevere: When it comes to messaging, people are too general. They’re not clear, specific, or emotionally resonant. Are you connecting emotionally with your audience? People connect through emotion and justify with logic. Speak to their pain, offer a solution, and they’ll emotionally decide they need it. Then, they’ll justify it logically.
Harley Green: What are some tips you recommend people use to make sure that their messaging considers emotion?
Sara Chevere: Are you getting results? If not, you may need to audit your messaging. That’s what I do with clients. I look for gaps. Recently, I coached someone who had a great brand but was missing in delivery. After auditing and refining, she made sales at her next event. That’s the power of clarity in messaging.
Harley Green: Can you share one or two examples of shifting messaging to appeal more to client emotions?
Sara Chevere: It comes back to pain. For example, in weight loss, many coaches teach giving up carbs. But what if you teach people to lose weight without eliminating carbs? That’s more emotionally appealing. In my masterclass, I teach how to build a million-dollar business without guesswork or burnout. People want success without sacrificing their wellbeing.
Harley Green: Talking about using these systems and avoiding burnout, when does it make sense to bring on help like an assistant?
Sara Chevere: As soon as you’re making sales, be open to help. If I teach someone to make $100K months, they need an assistant to keep growing. Delegate low-value tasks so you can focus on high-value ones, like connecting with your audience. Eventually, you might even delegate sales closing so you can stay focused on delivering transformation.
Harley Green: What’s your advice for business leaders who are still too involved in the low-level delivery and struggling to step into visionary leadership?
Sara Chevere: Ask yourself how big you want to grow. If you’re still holding on to everything, it might be a trust issue. You need to trust that delegating will expand your business. There’s real power in delegation.
Harley Green: I imagine you get this a lot from people who want to scale their offer but fear what success might bring. That fear can cause self-sabotage. Have you seen that?
Sara Chevere: Absolutely. I can’t teach my strategies without teaching mindset. Many entrepreneurs have internal stories they don’t even realize are holding them back. It might be something a parent said like, “You’ll never make money doing that,” or “Money is evil.” One client feared making more than $40K a month because she didn’t want to pay more taxes. These stories create subconscious resistance. I help clients uncover and rewrite those narratives.
Harley Green: What would you say to someone who has that fear or story? How can they move past it?
Sara Chevere: One client worried about taxes. I told her she was thinking like an employee. Entrepreneurs get deductions, and the tax code is mostly about how to minimize your liability. Get a great accountant who understands entrepreneurs. Also, invest your money so it works for you and reduces tax liability. It’s not about saving—it’s about investing smart.
Harley Green: Often, people get distracted by shiny new trends or offers. How do you help people stay focused on refining their core offer?
Sara Chevere: If your offer is working and you’ve created a system around it, then yes, explore new ideas or additional offers. But keep the core premium offer running and profitable. If you want to serve a wider audience, you can create a lower-tier offer or a retention program to keep clients engaged long-term. Just don’t lose focus or burn yourself out.
Harley Green: If someone wants to grow quickly without burnout, what’s one strategy they should implement today?
Sara Chevere: Collaboration. That’s what we’re doing here, Harley. There’s so much power in aligning with others instead of competing. Be generous, contribute, and collaborate. It’s one of the fastest ways to grow without reinventing the wheel.
Harley Green: Absolutely. Sara, you’ve shared incredible value today. If people want to connect or learn more, where should they go?
Sara Chevere: Just go to sheprospersher.com. You can join my free masterclass, learn how to create premium offers, and connect with the community.
Harley Green: Thank you for offering that to our audience. If you got value from this episode, hit like and subscribe so you don’t miss future strategies. Share this with a business owner who needs it. And if you’re on a podcast platform, leave us a rating. Thanks for tuning in!
Time Freedom for Leaders: How to Reclaim Your Schedule and Scale Without Burnout
Entrepreneurs and executives are no strangers to the hustle—but too often, that hustle leads to exhaustion, not freedom. In a recent episode of Executive Edge Live, hosted by Harley Green of Workergenix, four elite leadership experts shared how to achieve real time freedom through smart systems, strategic delegation, and a serious mindset shift.
If you’re constantly stuck in the weeds of your business, here’s how to break free.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
The “Time Rich” Framework: A Business That Runs Without You
Mike Abramowitz, co-founder of Better Than Rich, knows firsthand what it takes to build a self-sustaining company. While his son spent 254 days in the NICU, his business not only survived—it thrived with over 7 figures in sales.
His secret? The Time Rich Six:
Boundaries – Protect your priorities
Communication Guidelines – Define when and how your team should reach you
Systems – Build repeatable, scalable workflows
Playbooks – Document SOPs to remove dependency on your input
Team – Hire doers who can execute with confidence
Technology – Automate and support execution
If your business needs you for every decision, it’s time to rethink your structure.
Implementing EOS: More Than Just Meetings
Michelle Rourke, an EOS Integrator, busts the myth that EOS is just “scorecards and long meetings.” Instead, EOS is a complete operating system that frees the founder to operate in their zone of genius.
Key EOS tools she highlights include:
The Accountability Chart
Clarity Breaks
Delegate and Elevate™
The GWC Tool (Get it, Want it, Capacity)
The goal? To shift founders from being the busiest person in the room to the most strategic.
Delegation is a Mindset, Not Just a Task
According to Cathy Christen, a Leadership & Lifestyle Strategist, many founders wear busyness like a badge of honor. But real leadership means shifting from being the best doer to being the best developer of people.
She encourages:
Running a time audit
Visualizing your business 10 years in the future
Building the org structure to support your ideal lifestyle
Your value isn’t in how much you do—it’s in how strategically you lead.
Small Changes, Big Impact: What’s Scalable vs. What’s Not
Robert Liedtka, creator of the People First Methodology, advises founders to start by evaluating what parts of their business are scalable—and what isn’t.
He recommends:
Breaking projects into scalable vs. non-scalable
Prioritizing what creates the most leverage
Aligning your actions with your vision and communication to build trust
Small, aligned shifts today build momentum for exponential growth tomorrow.
Stop Trying to Do It All Yourself
A recurring theme throughout the panel? Delegation is essential for scale.
Whether you’re a solo founder or leading a team, you can’t grow if you’re the only one moving the ball. The panel discussed how to:
Use time audits to identify what to offload
Design roles around strengths, not just tasks
Install systems that remove you from day-to-day decisions
As Mike put it: “Your business doesn’t need a superhero—it needs a leader.”
🎁 Ready to reclaim 15–30 hours a week with strategic delegation? 👉 Get instant access to our Delegate to Dominate masterclass: https://workergenix.com/bonus-masterclass
Final Thought: Time Freedom Starts With Intentional Leadership
If you want a business that doesn’t rely on you, you have to design it that way—on purpose. That means clarifying your vision, building the right systems, and letting go of control so others can rise.
Schedule a free discovery call to explore how we can help you reclaim your time, systemize your operations, and lead with clarity—not burnout.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript
Harley Green
Welcome everyone to today’s Executive Edge Live panel. Today we’re talking about time freedom for today’s leaders and helping people lead at a higher level with the right people and the right systems in place. We’ve got an amazing panel together here today and I wanna just welcome everyone here and thank you for joining us.
This is hosted by Workergenix. I’m Harley Green. I’m the CEO and founder of Workergenix. We help executives and leadership teams stay focused on high impact activities by delegating the rest to highly skilled AI leveraged ultimate executive assistants. Today’s conversation is going to be all about one of the most valuable assets for any leader, their time. We’re diving into how to create real time freedom with the right people, systems and support so you can lead at a higher level without the burnout. I’m honored to be joined by four powerhouse leaders who live and teach this every single day.
First off, we have Mike, who is the co-founder of Better Than Rich. He’s built a seven figure business that runs without him. He’s a creator of Time Rich and leader of GSD Intensives, helping owners systemize sales, referrals and hiring so the business doesn’t depend on them. Next, we’ve got Robert who has over 15 years of leading global and national teams. He’s developer of People First methodology that unlocks workforce potential and turns small changes into bottom line breakthroughs. And Michelle helps businesses fully integrate EOS and entrepreneur operating system across all layers, driving accountability, harmonizing operations and installing permanent integrators for long-term success. And last but not least is Cathy, who specializes in building systems and cultures that help leaders thrive without the sacrifice, empowering them to reclaim their time and lead with purpose. Thank you all for being here. How’s everyone on the panel doing today?
Cathy Christen Great, excited to be here.
Mike Abramowitz Thanks for having us.
Harley Green All right.
Robert Liedtka Very excited.
Harley Green Awesome. Well, the first question I have for the panel, anyone can feel free to jump in after I ask the question here is, what does time freedom mean to you personally? And why is it so critical for today’s leaders?
Cathy Christen I’ll jump in. I think time freedom, my whole world for 20 years has been around creating time and money freedom, right? And being able to do what you want when you want with whom you want. I think about in a business sense, it’s having the freedom to work on what you want to work on, right? To be able to focus on the needle movers, to not get stuck in the weeds. I think that too many leaders, a lot of leaders think about delegation as like giving away tasks. And it’s not about transferring ownership or it’s not about just delegating, but transferring ownership with clarity. And so I think that time freedom, there’s so much that we’re going to talk about, but it really creates space for you to be able to major in the majors and not get stuck in the weeds as a business owner and have more time to work on the business versus in the business.
Michelle Rourke Yep. You know, I’ll add through EOS, we teach visionaries how to live their best life. So for me personally though, it’s I’m right now at my in-laws in Phoenix. So the freedom to me is being able to enjoy the other parts of your life besides just working in the business. So I think that’s the biggest challenge, taking a vacation, enjoying life.
Robert Liedtka I’m very happy you brought that up. I think in terms of how you spend that time is what’s going to be most impactful for both yourself as a leader or your team in order to prevent things like burnout. The more time that you’re just putting into things like operational blow, just going through the motions in your day-to-day work, that’s going to consume you and eventually burn you out. And if you can leverage that free time that you have to work smarter throughout your day-to-day, you’ll be able to even gain more and more of that freedom to be able to have that restoration so that you’re not running in the red at all times.
Mike Abramowitz Yeah, I’ll just echo everything that’s been said. Plus it’s just for me, it’s been a choice. So time freedom just gives me choices. I could choose to work in parts of the business that I enjoy. I could choose to not work in the parts of the business that I don’t enjoy. I could choose to delegate. I could choose to choose to do. I could choose the vacation or I could choose to work hard. So just having choices is what time freedom means to me.
Harley Green Awesome. Now, Mike, you have a personal story that really drove home the importance of time freedom when your son was in the NICU. What are some of the first steps leaders must take if they want a business that runs without them, so they have that time freedom you just described?
Mike Abramowitz The cliff notes: James is doing great now. He’s four and a half, almost five. He was born at one pound, four ounces. He was in the NICU for eight and a half months. So for those 254 days, my business was able to run without me, and it still did seven figures in sales without me there.
It took a little bit of dissecting to figure out what caused that, but it really came from six principles. We now call them the “Time Rich Six.” These are:
Boundaries – Protecting priorities.
Communication Guidelines – What deems an email versus a text versus a call.
Systems – If-then processes.
Playbooks – Documentation of those processes.
Team – Who’s executing the playbooks.
Technology – Tools the team uses to execute those plays.
Boundaries, communication guidelines, systems, playbooks, team, and tech — that’s what we now call the Time Rich Six. That’s what I installed in the business to “McDonald-ify” it. Documentation with SOPs, lower-wage workers executing the plays because they were simplified, and supportive tech. That’s the Time Rich Six.
Harley Green Love it. Does anybody else have experience implementing similar pillars in their business?
Cathy Christen Yes, absolutely. I think first, in terms of the transition from going from that “I’m hitting a wall, overwhelmed, how can I work any more hours?” — I remember there being a moment where it started with something as simple as a time audit. That was the big transition. Looking at what are all the things I’m actually doing right now? Should I be doing them? Really evaluating.
Sometimes business owners have this pride or ego — “I’ve got it,” or “I can do it better,” or they fear letting go. I sat down and really looked at my calendar. What am I doing? Could this be automated? Could this be delegated to someone just as good or better than me? Is this something a $15–$25/hr person should be doing instead of me?
I put tasks into buckets: things only I can do, things someone like me could do if trained, things a loyal, coachable mentee could do, tasks for overseas support, and things that can be automated. And it was magic when that came together.
One big part of that was creating duplicatable systems. Many leaders say, “It’s just faster to do it myself,” because they haven’t taken the time to get it out of their head and onto paper. It may feel faster in the moment, but that doesn’t create time freedom, or scale, or allow you to duplicate yourself.
Someone challenged me to take pride in being the best teacher of the things in my business, not the best doer. That mindset shift changed my world.
Robert Liedtka That’s a great way to look at it. I’d also add in prioritization — for yourself and your team. Too often, teams have growing to-do lists and never get to the bottom. Effective teams implement prioritization where it’s painful to let something go. You might want to do it, but you know you need to focus elsewhere.
You need to remove not just the time but also the mental space things take up. When your attention is fully on what’s been prioritized, you’re far more effective than trying to juggle 100 things at once.
Harley Green Awesome. Well, Robert, right back at you. You believe small changes can make a big impact. What’s one change a leader can make this quarter to start reclaiming their time?
Robert Liedtka Yeah, everything starts small. It might sound obvious, but many leaders get stuck in theory without taking the first step. The key is to break things down into their smallest components. Then, prioritize.
What I do with teams is help them lay everything out — then sort into two buckets: what’s scalable and what’s not. Focus first on the scalable items. Then ask: What can we implement in the next day, week, or month?
Get that first small win, and then scale that across the team. Also, instill the habit of identifying what’s working well and what’s not — consistently. That reflection builds value across the team. It’s either the same input with better output, or less input with the same output. If you can align both, you dramatically reduce how long it takes to get results in the organization.
So — identify what you’re doing, then what’s scalable, then what’s valuable, and then what’s realistic to implement now. That’s how you start to reclaim time.
Harley Green Well, going over to you, Michelle. Many leaders think EOS is just meetings and scorecards. How do you reframe EOS as a system for freeing up the visionary to lead at a higher level?
Michelle Rourke EOS is a framework. The most important thing is to pick a framework — and actually stick with it.
Too many people treat EOS like a buffet. They pick an L10 meeting here, a scorecard there. But EOS is a complete system. The first thing we teach is: What do you want from your company?
I’m an integrator, so I work hand in hand with visionaries. We start with vision, goals, values — but then break that into execution. That starts with getting people into their unique ability, so others can handle running the business.
One of the first steps I insist visionaries take is a Clarity Break. Step back, write out everything you do in a day, what’s actually important, and then we work through that list.
EOS gives us tools like IDS (Identify, Discuss, Solve) sessions, weekly meeting rhythms, and more. Whether you use EOS or something else, the point is: implement a system that reaches every layer of the business — not just the top level.
Harley Green I’m definitely hearing some themes here — making sure people have a good understanding of their values and how they’re spending their time in order to implement change effectively.
Cathy Christen Yes — and systems create predictability, which creates freedom.
Something like EOS — we’ve used our own version of it for nearly two decades — helps stop you from running your business on hope, memory, or chaos. It ensures you have the right people in the right seats, and clear processes to match.
It reduces the 2 a.m. anxiety of “Is this getting done?” Systems aren’t about control — they’re about peace of mind. When your team knows what’s expected every week and how to be held accountable, you get better performance.
Good systems also allow people to co-create, take ownership, and contribute to decisions. That increases buy-in and drives high performance.
Mike Abramowitz I’ve got several thoughts — let me pull in a few things from what everyone just said.
Cathy said something powerful: “Doing things to get them done” vs. “Doing things to get them delegated.” That’s a big nugget.
Robert mentioned when you say yes to the wrong priorities, you’re saying no to the right ones — I loved that.
Michelle brought up unique ability — what only you can do in your business. I call it the Zone of Genius — Gay Hendricks talks about it in The Big Leap. Everything else outside that zone? Delegate.
And what you’re doing with Workergenix, Harley — I love that. You’re plugging in a team of doers, powered by AI, to tackle everything outside a leader’s zone of genius.
Lastly, Cathy mentioned meeting cadence — I recommend pairing that with the One Minute Manager philosophy. Goal setting, brief check-ins, praise or redirect, repeat. That keeps accountability sharp and simple.
Robert Liedtka Mike, I love that you brought up One Minute Manager. I’d add one more thing — leaders sometimes fall into the trap of thinking only they can do a certain task. Ego gets in the way. They end up holding onto too much, thinking, “I’m the best at this,” and suddenly, they’re empire-building and headed straight toward burnout.
You’ve got to be real with yourself about your actual skills and value. What can only you do? Once you identify that, it’s way easier to delegate and focus your energy.
Michelle Rourke Yes! And I’ll add: If your goal is to scale, you can’t be stuck doing everything. You have to learn to step out.
Harley Green Right. And we’ve seen the opposite too — leaders feel guilty handing off tasks they don’t enjoy. But just because you don’t like doing it doesn’t mean no one does. There’s someone out there who loves that task and may be even better at it than you. Delegating creates opportunities for others too.
Mike Abramowitz That reminds me — a friend once asked, “What do all superheroes have in common — except Batman and Iron Man?”
The answer? They’re broke.
Robert Liedtka They’re broke?
Michelle Rourke They’re broke.
Mike Abramowitz They try to be everything to everyone, but they have no money, no life, no relationships. The “superhero syndrome” isn’t a compliment. Being the best at everything in your business is actually a problem.
Harley Green Powerful point. Cathy, as someone who helps leaders thrive without sacrifice, what mindset shifts are needed to reclaim time while still growing a business?
Cathy Christen One of the first mindset shifts I work on is this: You don’t have to do it all.
Too many leaders wear busyness like a badge of honor. But the shift comes when you realize your value isn’t in how much you do — but in how strategically you lead.
Let go of being the hero. Your business doesn’t need a hero — it needs a leader.
The best business owners are developers of leaders. Even if you’re a solopreneur doing half a million dollars, act like your business is in the “adult” stage. That’s a mindset shift.
Stop thinking, “I’ll deal with that later.” Instead, ask: “What does my business look like 10 years from now?” Then reverse-engineer that. Who reports to you? What’s your org structure? What type of marketing team, support team, operators will you need?
Don’t limit your thinking based on where you are right now. Start with vision — then see what it takes to get there. Because the truth is, with tools like Workergenix, there are very practical, affordable ways to offload tasks and scale faster.
I ask every founder: What does the life you love look like? Let’s build the business that aligns with that.
Mike Abramowitz That was fire. I’ll add this — we’ve been working with a lot of blue-collar businesses. Our new thing is “White Collar Systems for Blue Collar Workers.”
It starts at the top of the funnel. For example, if a contractor is taking every phone call — how do we stop that? Maybe we create a form on the website, offer a lead magnet like “$500 off,” and get their info so we control the follow-up.
Now we’re not reacting — we’re guiding the sales journey.
Then we add a discovery call with qualifying questions before ever sending a crew out. That saves time, gas, and labor — because we’re not servicing unqualified leads.
Plugging in a virtual assistant for admin is great, but don’t stop there. You need to build systems and predictability around the whole user journey — for your customers and your business.
Harley Green Michelle, did you want to jump in?
Michelle Rourke Go ahead, go to your next one.
Harley Green Alright, so the next question I have for everybody is: What are some of the most common traps that keep leaders stuck in the weeds? I think we’ve touched on some already — but how do you help them avoid those traps? Feel free to jump in.
Robert Liedtka Great question. Every leader, no matter where they are in their journey, needs to be aware of this if they want to grow.
Where I see leaders get stuck is when they have enthusiasm, but lack the tools or communication skills to bring their teams along. Or maybe they haven’t built trust, which is critical.
I teach leaders to align the three major aspects of trust:
What you think
What you say
What you do
If any of these are out of sync, your team will sense the misalignment, and trust will erode. As humans, we pick up on that very quickly.
You need to be introspective. Ask: What do I really think? Am I saying that clearly? And does my behavior match? Without that alignment, your leadership becomes transactional instead of transformational.
Michelle Rourke I’ll dive in. One of the biggest traps I see is misalignment with the right people in the right seats.
In small-to-medium businesses, it’s common to build the team around people — family, friends, or long-time staff — instead of building based on structure.
You end up creating a job for Uncle Ted instead of identifying the functions the business actually needs.
Later, when it’s time to scale, you’re stuck with the wrong person doing the wrong job. That’s hard to unwind.
So I always say: Start by thinking 6 months ahead. Build your accountability chart based on what the business needs, not who you already have.
Cathy Christen Dead on. When defining a role, you also need to think about the attributes you want.
Do you need someone outgoing and energetic? Or someone quiet and detail-oriented? I once hired someone amazing for an operational role that needed a lot of inventory analysis. But she was super chatty — and it didn’t work.
It wasn’t that she was bad — she was just in the wrong seat.
When we moved her to client acquisition and marketing, she thrived. She was happy, we grew, and we found someone else who loved being behind-the-scenes with spreadsheets.
The key is getting crystal clear on the role and the kind of person who will thrive in it. Your brain starts looking for the right match once it knows what to look for.
Mike Abramowitz I’ve got two traps. One: leaders see everything as transactional, instead of investing in relationships — with their team, clients, and partners. Relationship-building is not a “nice to have.” It’s the fuel.
Two: There’s a math trap. Let’s say you want to work 30 hours a week for 48 weeks a year. That’s 1,440 hours.
Now let’s say your income goal is $300,000. Divide that by 1,440 — that’s $208 per hour.
If you’re doing $15/hr tasks, you’re out of alignment. You’re undercutting your own value. Just that shift in perspective can change everything.
Michelle Rourke EOS has a great tool for this — it’s called Delegate and Elevate. It’s the same idea. You figure out what gives you energy and what drains you. You start handing off the stuff that doesn’t match your unique ability. That’s how you grow.
Harley Green And speaking of the right seats, we had a podcast guest recently who talked about doing a responsibility auction.
If you’ve got a team where roles are murky — maybe family, friends, or long-time staff — strip away the names. Just list all the responsibilities on paper. Then let people “bid” on what they want to own.
The blanks that no one picks? That’s where you hire. It’s a simple way to get people aligned without hurting feelings.
Michelle Rourke Yes! And often when you remove someone from a role they weren’t thriving in, they’re so much happier. They didn’t want to be there either — they just didn’t know how to say it.
Cathy Christen Exactly. And productivity goes up when people are in the right seat. It’s not just about skills — it’s about energy and alignment.
Mike Abramowitz Let me click on that. Jeff Woods once told me: “Every seat should have three key jobs. And if you can’t do those three, you’re fired.”
It’s not about overwhelming people with 15 tasks. Keep it simple. Define the three most critical things each role must deliver — and build accountability around that.
You can connect that with the book The ONE Thing. Focus on what drives 80% of the results — and get clarity on what matters most.
Robert Liedtka Yes. And if someone consistently picks responsibilities that don’t align with the company’s vision — that’s a red flag. You might need to reevaluate the role or the person.
Prioritization gives you the lens to run those exercises more effectively.
Michelle Rourke Another EOS tool I love is GWC — Get it, Want it, Capacity to do it.
You ask: Does this person “get” the role? Do they “want” it? And do they have the “capacity” — meaning the skills and bandwidth?
It’s a simple filter that brings so much clarity.
Harley Green I’ve got more questions, and this group could talk for hours, but let’s jump to a final lightning round.
In just one or two sentences — what’s your best tip for a leader who wants to stop working in the business and start working on it this year?
Mike Abramowitz Oh man, how do I get this into one sentence?
Robert Liedtka Trying to pare that down too, ha!
Michelle Rourke One sentence? Okay — Let go and trust the system.
Robert Liedtka It all starts with ego. You’ve got to be honest about what you’re good at, what you’re not, and prioritize based on that. (Sorry, maybe a few commas and dashes in there.)
Cathy Christen Super tactical: Run a time audit. Then figure out what you don’t have to be doing.
Mike Abramowitz Okay, here’s my one-liner: Know what you want — then go build it.
Harley Green Powerful. I want to give everyone a chance to share how people can connect with you. Where can our audience find you online?
Cathy Christen Visit CathyChristen.com — all my links and socials are there. That’s Cathy with a C and Christen with a CH.
Michelle Rourke The best way is LinkedIn — just search for Michelle Rourke. Also, I recommend the book Traction — if you want a copy, send me a DM and I’ll mail it to you.
Robert Liedtka You can find me on LinkedIn as well — Robert Liedtka. My world is great for anyone in corporate who’s looking to scale teams or make a career move.
Mike Abramowitz And if you know a blue-collar business owner who wants more freedom, head to betterthanrich.com/GSD. I’ll do a free OBS call and help you design systems that work for your business — whether you do it yourself or hire us.
Harley Green Thank you all for your stories, insights, and wisdom today.
To everyone watching — thank you for joining this conversation. As a thank-you, we’re offering free access to our masterclass: “Delegate to Dominate.”
In it, I walk through how top execs are reclaiming 15–30 hours a week using the right strategic support.
How to Lead in Flow and Scale Without Burnout — Insights from Dr. Kevin Gazzara
If you’re constantly juggling tasks, reacting to fires, and ending your days wondering where your time went—you’re not alone. But what if the problem isn’t how much you’re doing, but what you’re doing?
In the latest episode of the Scale Smart, Grow Fast Podcast, we sat down with Dr. Kevin Gazzara, CEO of Magna Leadership Solutions and former Intel exec, to talk about one of the most overlooked levers for leadership success: flow state.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
🔄 The 3 Types of Work That Rule Your Day
According to Dr. Gazzara, all tasks fall into one of three categories:
Routine work (e.g., emails, admin)
Troubleshooting (fire drills and problem-solving)
Project work (strategic, long-term goals)
Most leaders are misaligned in how they manage these. Kevin’s research shows that when you discover your personal task cadence—the right mix of these three types—you boost engagement, motivation, and performance.
🧠 The Flow State Formula
Flow happens when your skills meet the right level of challenge. That’s why leaders thrive when they spend time in their optimal cadence of task types. For Kevin, that’s:
50% project work
30% troubleshooting
20% routine
The key? Know your cadence and structure your day around it—not the other way around.
🔄 Delegation Isn’t Dumping
Kevin’s delegation mantra is simple: If holding onto this task is blocking someone else’s development—delegate it.
True delegation empowers others, while “dumping” just offloads busywork. The goal is mutual growth.
🔁 Rebalancing Beats Restructuring
One standout tactic: the Task Auction. Instead of restructuring teams, Kevin helps orgs plot out their task types, then redistribute them based on individual flow preferences. The result? Up to 80% of “drudge work” can be realigned—boosting motivation and slashing burnout.
🎯 Productivity Tips That Work
Time block with a buffer (multiply your estimate by 2.5x)
Use tools like Pomodoro to stay in flow
Get a “capability partner” to check in regularly—not for pressure, but for clarity and progress
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript
Harley Green Hey guys, welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. Today, Dr. Kevin Gazzara is the CEO of Magna Leadership Solutions and a seasoned executive coach known for helping leaders unlock high performance by balancing the right types of work. With over 18 years at Intel and a doctorate in organizational leadership, Kevin brings deep expertise in management, team development, and emotional intelligence. His practical framework for finding flow empowers leaders to delegate wisely, focus strategically, and scale with clarity and impact. Kevin, thank you for coming on the podcast today. How are you doing?
Dr. Kevin Gazzara Fantastic. Thanks for sharing me with your audience. I appreciate that.
Harley Green It’s my pleasure. Kevin, can you share a little bit more about your story and what brought you to helping business owners get into FlowNow?
Dr. Kevin Gazzara Sure, I’d be glad to do that. My background, similar to yours, I think, is from a technical perspective. I did my undergrad work in engineering and business, did an MBA, and ultimately did my doctoral work in organizational leadership and management. I spent 18 years at Intel, fantastic experience, wonderful company, learned so much, great learning culture. But I had a personal goal, and I had a great mentor and coach. At 40, I had this 10-year plan that at 50, I wanted to retire and give back by working with other companies to help grow their leadership. Fortunately, I was able to do that. I had a wonderful financial advisor. Of course, you have to have your finances in order. At 50, myself and two of my colleagues from Intel decided to leave and do what we were doing for Intel for other companies.
My last 10 years at Intel were spent managing Intel’s management leadership development for the world. I managed residential programs at Intel University. I really enjoyed seeing the light go on for executives and managers to get to the next level. We used to train 2,500 managers and leaders in 10 different countries each year for the programs that I had developed and was managing. When I retired 18 years ago, we had just finished training our 40,000th manager. I got pretty good at that, and I wanted to bring that knowledge, expertise, and hopefully passion and enthusiasm to small to medium-sized companies that didn’t have $10 million budgets to spend. I’ve been able to do that with lots of companies around the world, both virtually and in person. In addition to that, I’ve been a professor at six different universities teaching management, leadership strategy, marketing, and business development.
Harley Green That’s an amazing service you’re offering people now with all that expertise that you’ve developed from your time at Intel and now sharing with people that don’t need to have the massive budgets and staff that Intel might have and still get those great benefits. Now, we talked about flow a little bit in the intro. What led you to develop this concept of leadership flow and why is it so critical for executives and leaders looking to scale?
Dr. Kevin Gazzara First, let’s talk about the concept of flow. Many people kind of understand what it is, but if you don’t, we’ll do the one-minute version. Flow was developed by a professor named Dr. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. He was the Department Chair of Psychology at the University of Chicago and later moved to the Drucker School of Management in Claremont, California. In his work in the late 80s and early 90s, he identified the concept of flow. It’s when your skill meets the right challenge. In the 90s, it was re-termed as being “in the zone.”
The easiest way to tell if you’re in the zone is that the sense of time becomes severely distorted. You’re working on something, and you look up at the clock thinking it’s 9 o’clock, but it’s midnight. That’s an indication that you’re in flow. I was always fascinated by this concept. I believed that if people could get into flow and stay in flow the majority of their time, they would be much more motivated and engaged.
When I worked at Intel and was finishing my doctoral degree, I noticed something interesting. I’d visit my staff members, and each one had a different preference for tasks. One would love task A and hate B and C. Another would love A and C but hate B. Another would love C but hate A and B. These were people with similar backgrounds, styles, and experience. So, I hypothesized that each person has a different preference for task types. If we could identify that preference, we could get people into flow more consistently.
There are three tasks we do regularly: routine tasks (like emails), troubleshooting tasks (problem-solving), and project tasks. Bill Daniels at American Training and Consulting found these are the core types. My theory was that everyone has a different mix that works for them, and if we can match the work to the person’s preferred mix, we can increase motivation, engagement, and the chances of getting into flow.
I wrote to Dr. Csikszentmihalyi and asked if he’d be on my committee for my dissertation and help me develop an assessment based on his concept. He agreed. We developed the Task Quotient (TQ) assessment. Normally we charge for it, but I’ll share a free link later. My research proved that if you can structure your day around your ideal task mix, it significantly boosts motivation and engagement. It doesn’t guarantee flow, but it works incredibly well as a foundation. We now use this framework in our Leading Forward Academy and other leadership programs.
Harley Green That’s really fascinating. So with these three types of work or tasks, have you found that to get in that flow state, it’s a mixture of time spent or an order of operations? Or is it best if someone just does the one type they’re best at?
Dr. Kevin Gazzara Great question. What we found is that you need to identify your cadence. For example, my cadence is roughly 50% project work, 30% troubleshooting, and 20% routine work. I encourage anyone who takes the assessment to figure out the cadence of their tasks. Cadence refers to how long you can stay focused on each type of task before needing to switch.
For me, I can do about 30 minutes of routine work, around an hour of troubleshooting, and two hours of project work. If I go beyond that, I get distracted. The key is to switch to a different task type—not just a different task. If you’re doing emails (routine) and switch to another routine task, you’re still in the same task type and not refreshing your brain. That’s why batching similar tasks can feel like drudgery.
Each task type gives different feedback. Routine work has high frequency but low intensity feedback—like deleting emails. Troubleshooting offers medium frequency and intensity. Project work gives low frequency but high intensity satisfaction—finishing a course, delivering a product. People have different preferences based on how much and what type of feedback they need.
Harley Green That makes perfect sense. Once someone knows their task cadence, how do they stay consistent and avoid distractions?
Dr. Kevin Gazzara Great question. First, eliminate distractions—turn off email notifications, phones, Alexa announcements, etc. If you’re a high-need executive, use a process: block time on your calendar, and set up auto-replies or voicemail saying, “I’m working on a project; text me if urgent.” This keeps interruptions low while maintaining responsiveness.
Second, get a capability partner—not an accountability partner. Share what you aim to accomplish daily. Most people create long lists, complete two things, and end up demotivated. A partner helps you stay focused and realistic.
Also, use a 2.5x buffer rule. If you think something will take two hours, block five. Often we underestimate time due to unexpected tasks or complexity. If you finish early, use that buffer time. Most people take on more than they can handle because they don’t factor in the time it takes to keep the business running—what we used to call KTBR at Intel.
Harley Green That time inventory is so important. Often, people realize they’re doing a lot that could be delegated. When does it make sense to bring on executive support like an assistant?
Dr. Kevin Gazzara Our process starts with tracking tasks for at least a week. Once you map your tasks by type, you can see what causes boredom or anxiety. Then we run a task auction. Everyone lists what they want to offload, and others can volunteer to take it on. It’s not bartering—it’s about matching people to tasks they actually enjoy. We’ve seen organizations reassign up to 82% of work this way.
There’s always leftover admin work—”crap work”—which is the perfect reason to hire a VA or executive assistant. Rather than paying a $120K engineer to handle service calls, you can hire someone for a fraction to handle administrative tasks. We even did a case study that saved a company $50K and increased job satisfaction by 26%, reducing turnover to zero.
Harley Green That’s powerful. Delegation is essential but often misunderstood. How do you teach leaders to delegate well?
Dr. Kevin Gazzara We teach a simple rule: if by holding on to a task, you’re hindering someone else’s development, then delegate it. Even if it takes them four hours instead of your one, it builds their skill and confidence. You can mentor and support them through it. That’s leadership development. Dumping is giving away things you don’t want to do. Delegation is about opportunity and growth.
Harley Green I love that. My wife and I often ask, “How do we never have to do this again?” It makes the investment in training someone else worth it. One last thing—can you talk more about how some leaders feel guilty offloading tasks they dislike?
Dr. Kevin Gazzara People assume that if they don’t like a task, no one else will either. But we all have different strengths, experiences, and preferences. What drains you could energize someone else. That’s why having conversations around task rebalancing—not just delegating—is so important.
Harley Green Awesome. Kevin, you’ve shared so much value today. Where can people take the Task Quotient assessment and learn more?
Dr. Kevin Gazzara We set up a special link: magnaleader.co/GIFT. It takes less than five minutes and gives you a personalized report on your task balance. If anyone wants a short summary of the dissertation that validates this framework, email me at . I also welcome conversations—no sales pitch, just happy to help. You can connect with me on LinkedIn as well.
Harley Green Thank you again, Kevin. To our listeners—if you found value in this, hit like and subscribe so you never miss future strategies to help you scale smarter. And share it with someone who could use this right now. See you in the next one!
How to Eliminate Chaos and Build a Business That Runs Without You | Featuring Susan Fennema
Most small business owners hit a wall—not because of market conditions or lack of talent—but because they’re still at the center of every decision.
In the latest episode of Scale Smart Grow Fast, Susan Fennema, Chaos Eradicating Officer, Beyond the Chaos, breaks down exactly how to remove owner dependency and turn chaos into clarity. With 30+ years of operational experience and co-author of Efficiency Amplified, she shares the mindset shifts, systems, and steps that help owners scale smart—without burning out.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
🚩 Warning Signs of Owner Dependency
You can’t take a real vacation without your business crumbling.
You’re constantly firefighting and exhausted.
Every decision runs through you.
Your best team members are either unclear or leaving.
Sound familiar? You’re not alone—and it’s fixable.
🛠️ First Steps to Operational Freedom
Track Your Time: Write down everything you do in a week—daily, monthly, even the tasks you hate.
Identify Low-Value Work: You’re likely doing $20/hour tasks as a $300/hour CEO.
Start Delegating: Begin with part-time help (VA or project manager) and record quick Loom videos to train them.
Build Basic Systems: Start small—like creating an offboarding process. It’s the most overlooked yet crucial one.
Use Project Management Tools Correctly: Trello, Asana, ClickUp all work—if you implement structure.
🧠 Mindset Shifts That Matter
Your team can do it better—if they know what success looks like.
Letting go isn’t losing control; it’s gaining capacity.
Peace and clarity don’t mean your business is failing—it means it’s working.
🔄 From Chaos to a Saleable Business
Most owners who “want out” can’t sell because they are the business. Susan explains how systematizing operations not only gives you your life back—it turns your business into a real, sellable asset.
💡 Time Management That Works
Calendar block your strategic time—and honor it.
Hold “office hours” to reduce constant interruptions.
Shut off email/social notifications and check them intentionally.
Feeling buried in tasks that pull you away from growth? Our executive support helps you reclaim time, focus, and control. 👉 Book My Discovery Call
Bottom Line: If you’re doing everything yourself, you’re not running a business—you’ve built a job. It’s time to scale smart. Start by watching the full episode for practical strategies you can implement this week. 🎥 Watch now on YouTube 🔗 https://youtu.be/wfjBpwiUkdE
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript
Harley Green Hey everybody, welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. Too many businesses hit a ceiling because the owner is still at the center of every decision. In this episode, Susan Fennema, chaos eradicating officer at Beyond the Chaos and co-author of Efficiency Amplified, shares how to eliminate operational chaos, build scalable systems, and finally break free from day-to-day dependency. With 30 plus years of operational expertise, Susan offers practical strategies to help business owners reclaim their time and lead with clarity. Susan, thank you so much for being on the podcast. How are you doing today?
Susan Fennema Thank you so much for having me. I’m doing great and excited to get this week going.
Harley Green Love it. Susan, can you tell us more about your background? What gave you this operational expertise and what made you decide to help businesses with their operations?
Susan Fennema I’ve always been wired for organizing. As a child, I would sit with a jar of buttons and organize them by color and size. Throughout my career, I worked for small business owners in roles that were always process-oriented. I was focused on taking the load off the owner, simplifying, and streamlining operations.
In 2016, I started looking for what I thought would be my last job, but I realized I could serve multiple owners at once instead of committing to one. That’s when Beyond the Chaos transitioned from a side gig into a business dedicated to helping owners eliminate chaos and build freedom into their operations.
Harley Green Owner dependency is a major roadblock to growth. What are some of the biggest warning signs that a business is too dependent on its owner?
Susan Fennema The biggest red flag is if the owner can’t take a vacation without everything falling apart. Other signs include exhaustion, constant firefighting, and being the bottleneck for every decision. Team members feel stuck because they need approval to move forward, which leads to frustration and turnover.
We also see owners frustrated with clients, team members, and even family because they’re burned out. Many say they want to sell their business and walk away. But once they create processes and hand off work, they usually rediscover their love for the business and start growing again.
Harley Green Some listeners might be realizing they don’t have to live with those stressors. What inspired you to start focusing on eliminating chaos?
Susan Fennema I started in project management, making projects more efficient. But I quickly saw how much relief that gave owners, so I went deeper. I began looking at the entire flow—how leads come in, how proposals turn into projects, how work is delivered, and how to build repeatable systems that create more clients.
Owners should focus on relationships, strategy, and growth, not daily details. With systems in place, it’s easier to hold teams accountable and identify who’s performing well. Many owners start businesses because they love their craft, but get trapped in details. Fractional operations support—like project managers or integrators—helps free them up without the cost of a full-time COO.
Harley Green That makes sense. For business owners who want to make their business more enjoyable or even more saleable, what are the first steps they should take?
Susan Fennema Start by writing down everything you do in a week, then add monthly, quarterly, and annual tasks. Include tasks you hate as well. Next, estimate what you’d pay someone else to do those tasks. Most owners, worth $200–$300 an hour, are spending too much time on $15 tasks.
Those are the first things to delegate or stop doing. Document how you do them with a simple video or outline. Then bring in part-time support like an assistant or project manager. Offloading those tasks frees you to focus on higher-level work.
Harley Green That’s a great point. Owners often hesitate to delegate because they don’t enjoy those tasks themselves.
Susan Fennema Exactly. But there are people, like us, who love operations. Processes may feel like bureaucracy, but they’re what actually set you free.
Harley Green You’ve mentioned several ways to eliminate chaos. Can you walk us through a few that create the foundation for scaling?
Susan Fennema The first is process development. Clear processes make delegation and accountability easier, and they create a structure for addressing problems without conflict.
The second is project management. Many owners try tools like Trello, Asana, or Monday and give up, but the problem is usually implementation. With the right setup, these tools help deliver projects consistently.
The third is using time intentionally. Owners often get trapped in email or constant interruptions. The key is structuring your day to reduce distractions and focus on high-value work.
Harley Green What are some tactical tips for managing time more intentionally?
Susan Fennema Calendar blocking is essential. Schedule time to work on the business and treat it like a client appointment. Office hours are another great tool. Instead of constant interruptions, team members know when they can come to you.
Turn off notifications, step away from email, and use project management tools to track work instead of your inbox. Even small changes here can dramatically improve productivity.
Harley Green How do you help owners move from reactive to proactive in their operations?
Susan Fennema It starts with reducing emergencies. Once things calm down, some owners panic because they feel less needed. That’s where reviewing your numbers and focusing on strategic questions comes in. Use that newfound time to think about sales, growth, or improving the business instead of constantly firefighting.
Harley Green In your book Efficiency Amplified, what’s one system or process every growing team should prioritize first?
Susan Fennema Offboarding. Onboarding is important, but offboarding is usually an emergency. If someone leaves suddenly, you need to know what accounts they had access to, what passwords to revoke, and how to notify the team. Having that process in place prevents chaos and protects the business.
Harley Green What are some mindset challenges owners face when trying to let go?
Susan Fennema One is believing they’re the only ones who can do it right. In reality, with the right direction, team members often do it better. Another is the adrenaline rush of firefighting—when that’s gone, owners can feel lost. Adjusting both mentally and physically is part of letting go.
Harley Green How can leaders maintain their vision while still empowering employees?
Susan Fennema Every company has a culture, intentional or not. Leaders need to clearly communicate the vision and values, especially in virtual or hybrid teams. At Beyond the Chaos, we send framed value statements to employees as a daily reminder. Celebrating employees who embody the vision reinforces it across the team.
Harley Green For owners still caught in the weeds, what’s one action they can take this week to start building more freedom?
Susan Fennema Start that activity spreadsheet. Document what you’re doing every day, then identify what can be delegated. Operations isn’t one-and-done, it’s ongoing—like finance. But starting with that step is the path to freedom.
Harley Green Susan, thank you so much for sharing these invaluable tips with our audience today. If people want to learn more or get in touch, what’s the best way?
Susan Fennema I’d like to offer an operations audit to everyone listening. It’s a form that helps you evaluate how you’re operating and where we can help. Go to beyondthechaos.biz/operations-audit.
Harley Green Fantastic, thank you for that. For those listening, if you got value from this episode, hit like and subscribe so you don’t miss future strategies to help you scale smarter. Share this with a colleague who might benefit, and if you’re on a podcast platform, leave us a quick rating. Thanks again for tuning in, and we’ll see you on the next one.
How to Turn Marketing Into a Measurable Growth Engine — Insights from Laura Patterson
Marketing that’s busy but not strategic is one of the fastest ways to burn time, budget, and opportunity. In a recent Scale Smart, Grow Fast episode, Laura Patterson, President of Vision Edge Marketing and creator of the Circle of Traction Framework, shared how leaders can align strategy, focus on customer value, and use data to drive measurable growth.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Start with the “Straight Line Test”
Laura’s quick diagnostic: open your marketing plan and draw a straight line from your business outcomes → objectives → programs → tactics → activities. If something doesn’t connect, it’s a “random act of marketing” — and it’s stealing your strategic capacity.
Keep the Focus on Customer Value
Growth begins with understanding:
Who your customers are
What they value and need
How you’re different from competitors
From there, align sales, marketing, and customer success teams around clear, customer-centric outcomes.
Data + Instinct = Better Decisions
Experience and gut matter, but data turns decisions into confident moves. Avoid drowning in metrics by first deciding what question you want the data to answer. Then focus on measures tied directly to outcomes — like product adoption, share of wallet, or footprint expansion.
Make Plans Dynamic, Not Static
Markets shift fast. Laura recommends monthly reviews to check performance against targets and adjust accordingly. Use dashboards to see what’s working, what’s not, and where to pivot.
Use Advisory Boards for Real Feedback
Customer and technical advisory boards give you direct insight into pain points, opportunities, and what your audience values most. That feedback fuels innovation and relevance.
Document Processes to Delegate Effectively
From email campaigns to webinars, every marketing activity has a process. Documenting these makes it easier to delegate tasks without losing quality or consistency.
Key Takeaway: Marketing becomes a growth engine when it’s aligned to business outcomes, rooted in customer value, and measured with discipline. Drop the random acts, focus your line, and review often.
Schedule a discovery call to uncover how Workergenix can streamline your operations, free your time, and help you scale smarter without burning out.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript
Harley Green: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. Growth without direction often leads to wasted time, budget, and opportunity. In this episode, Laura Patterson, President of Vision Edge Marketing and creator of the Circle of Traction Framework, shares how leaders can align their strategies around customer value, streamline execution, and make smarter decisions using data. With over two decades of experience guiding hundreds of organizations, Laura is going to deliver a clear and actionable approach to turning marketing into a measurable growth engine. Laura, how are you? Thanks for being on the podcast.
Laura Patterson: Thank you for having me. I appreciate the opportunity to share my passion with your community.
Harley Green: Tell us a bit more about what brought you to being President of Vision Edge.
Laura Patterson: I won’t spend too much time there because I’d like to make sure we spend more time on things that will be helpful and actionable for your community. If you wind the clock back just a little bit, I’m in Austin, Texas. In 1999, if you could spell marketing, you could get a job. I’d been in Austin since 1982 after working for several companies, predominantly in very early stage technology. The product I was marketing, selling, and servicing ran on a Wang 2200. I was brought here by Motorola to help bring up a new organization and business line involving marketing operations, communication, and customer acquisition.
I spent the next 14 years inside Motorola and then left to go back into software. When my phone rang many times with people wanting help with strategic and product marketing and customer acquisition and retention, it was an opportunity to jump from the frying pan to the fire and start my own firm. That was the impetus and catalyst for Vision Edge Marketing, and we’ve been at it ever since.
Harley Green: Love it. Now, tell us more about the Circle of Traction Framework. How did that come about and what is it for?
Laura Patterson: The Circle of Traction has been around since the very beginning of our company. Many of our customers have used what we call “the wheel” to make sure they have the right starting point, end point, and all the things needed to move the wheel and get traction in the marketplace. We have a book on it called Fast Track Your Business, which came from a long-time customer who brought us in at various companies to talk about leveraging the Circle of Traction. On my way out from one of those meetings, John said, “When are you going to put this in a book?” I told him probably not, having already written three books, but eventually we did. The book takes everyone through each node in the Circle of Traction with actionable guidance at every step so anyone aiming to accelerate market growth with a customer-centric approach has a framework to do so.
Harley Green: You’ve worked with a ton of companies. What’s the most common reason marketing becomes disconnected from actual business growth?
Laura Patterson: I love this question. Here’s a quick test: open your marketing plan. It’s probably in Excel or PowerPoint. Many think a list of things to do, dates, and a budget is a plan. We encourage a different view. Draw a straight line from the business result you want down through objectives, programs, tactics, and activities. If anything is off that line, we call those orphans or random acts, and they steal strategic capacity.
Every day, new things pop up and you might think you should do them. Ask where it fits on the line. If it doesn’t, it’s another random act that may not move the ball down the field. That’s a simple, practical test — and we can help you fix that.
Harley Green: These random acts can be the new shiny object — tech, pipeline, trends. How do you help people stay focused and avoid shiny object syndrome?
Laura Patterson: In marketing — and sales or customer success — ask: What business outcome will this activity help achieve? If you don’t know, it’s time to discuss. Second, what exactly will we do to achieve that outcome? Third, how will you know it worked?
In marketing, we’ve made things complicated with endless activity metrics — visits, clicks, downloads, shares — but we should be measuring impact on outcomes, not just activity.
Harley Green: Many leaders rely on experience and instinct. When does that fall short, and how does data fill the gap?
Laura Patterson: I’d never tell an experienced leader their gut is irrelevant. I use mine too. But we can make more confident, faster decisions when data supports our thinking. Without it, we might keep doing things that aren’t working. Data helps us streamline the thousands of decisions we make daily. The challenge isn’t lack of data — it’s finding actionable insights.
To leverage data, start with the question you want answered. Otherwise, you risk drowning in information.
Harley Green: In a busy organization, how do you decide which data points matter for growth versus noise?
Laura Patterson: It starts with defining what success looks like for your company. Most leaders start with revenue targets, maybe profit or margin. But marketers don’t market to “buckets of revenue” — we need specific outcomes like: how many new customers in which markets for which products, how many existing customers to retain, or how to grow share of wallet.
When outcomes are customer-centric, the right metrics reveal themselves — adoption rates, share of wallet, footprint expansion — and these can guide operational plans across sales, marketing, and product teams.
Harley Green: How does the Circle of Traction help maintain that customer-centric focus?
Laura Patterson: It starts with customer insights: Who they are, what’s important to them, their challenges, aspirations, current approach, and how you can help them do it better. This informs personas, buying journeys, and strategy — then execution.
Harley Green: As marketing grows, execution can get messy. When does it make sense to delegate tasks like reporting, research, or management to an assistant?
Laura Patterson: First, document your processes. If you want others to help — whether an executive assistant, VA, or vendor — they need clear steps. Every marketing activity, from emails to events, has a process. The more detailed your documentation, the easier it is to delegate effectively.
Harley Green: How do you keep alignment from marketing through to sales?
Laura Patterson: Without guidance, sales will do whatever it takes to make the number. Give them focus — which customers, why, and what to say. This makes them more efficient and effective, targeting the right doors to knock on.
Harley Green: You’re known for helping turn marketing into performance engines. What’s step one to making it measurable and accountable?
Laura Patterson: Tie everything to clear outcomes. I’m surprised how often marketers can’t name the three to five business outcomes they’re expected to impact. Too often, plans are just last year’s plan updated. Instead, consider current market trends, target segments, and how that impacts sales, product, and customer service.
Harley Green: Who should adjust marketing strategy in response to trends — executives or marketing leaders?
Laura Patterson: It depends on company size and talent. Smaller companies may rely on leadership or outside experts. Larger ones with seasoned marketing leaders can handle it internally.
Harley Green: How often should companies revisit their marketing plan?
Laura Patterson: Frequently, especially in times of flux. I recommend monthly reviews with dashboards showing what’s working, what’s not, and where to adjust.
Harley Green: What’s the biggest missed opportunity in gathering or acting on customer feedback?
Laura Patterson: Not having customer or technical advisory boards. These provide valuable insight and a give-and-take relationship that benefits both sides. They help you understand what customers truly value.
Harley Green: For a leader stuck in reactive marketing mode, what’s one action they can take this week toward a strategic, data-driven approach?
Laura Patterson: Start by reviewing your plan — or create one. Apply the Straight Line Test. Then ask questions with “customer” in them: Which customers are buying? How long do they stay? Which have left? This will shift your thinking.
Harley Green: How can people connect with you?
Laura Patterson: On LinkedIn, by email at , or through my book Fast Track Your Business. We also offer free downloads like the customer centricity worksheet at visionedgemarketing.com.
Harley Green: Thanks, Laura. And for those listening, if you got value from this episode, hit like and subscribe so you don’t miss future strategies to help you scale smarter. Share this episode with someone who could use it, and leave us a quick rating to help us reach more leaders.
When Sales Systems Break: How Founders Can Scale Without Burnout
In this episode of Executive Edge Live—part of the Scale Smart, Grow Fast podcast by Workergenix—Harley Green is joined by four sales and strategy powerhouses to tackle a painful but common issue: What happens when your sales systems stop working?
If your business is running on duct-taped processes, manual follow-ups, and founder-fueled hustle, this conversation is your wake-up call—and your roadmap forward.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
From “Controlled Chaos” to Scalable Sales Systems
💬 Beth McClary-Wolford (Fractional Sales Leader) revealed why most businesses don’t actually have sales systems—they have people and tools… and crossed fingers.
💬 Sara Chevere (Offer Architect & Wealth Strategist) called out the clarity gap: too many founders keep stacking courses, certifications, and tech without addressing the root problem—messy messaging and no clear flow.
💬 Stephen Orefice (Sales Culture Strategist) shared his own burnout story, and how focusing on people, processes, and purpose helped him rebuild sustainably.
💬 Kelly Ann Peck (Pipeline Expert) reminded us that movement builds momentum. A CRM isn’t optional—it’s foundational. And the sale doesn’t count until the contract is signed and paid.
Key Takeaways for Founders & Execs
💡 Stop selling alone. Sales success can’t depend solely on you. It’s time to systematize, delegate, and empower others.
💡 Start with real conversations. Don’t over-engineer. Begin with your network and build from there.
💡 Track everything. From proposals to payments, follow-up is where deals are made (or lost).
💡 Shift your mindset. Selling is serving. Don’t hide your offers—make them clearly and often.
“If you build it, they will not come—unless you tell them. A lot.” – Beth McClary-Wolford
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Transcript
Harley Green: All right, just waiting for all the streams to get activated online. All right, we got confirmation. It’s live on Instagram, very good. And it’s good to go on Facebook as well. So we will go ahead and get started. Welcome everybody to the Executive Edge Live part of the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast by Workergenix. I’m Harley Green, founder and CEO of Workergenix, where we help founders and executive teams delegate what drains them so they can focus on scaling strategically.
Today’s session is all about what happens when your sales systems hit their breaking point. The missed follow-ups, the messy handoffs, the “how are we still doing this manually” moments. I’m thrilled to be joined by a powerhouse of leaders who’ve built revenue engines that run without them constantly propping them up. Whether you’re selling services or widgets or investment offerings, these are the frameworks, workflows and mindsets that help sales scale without spiraling into chaos. Thank you all to our panelists for coming here today. We’re gonna kind of go around and a quick introduction. We’ve got Kelly, who’s a business sales coach and strategic revenue leader. Kelly has tripled client revenue in down markets and driven over $30 million through strategic event-based sales. She has over 26 years across sales, coaching, and marketing leadership, and she’s known for turning messy pipelines into clean, profitable ecosystems. Next we have Sarah. Sarah’s a wealth strategist and premium offer architect. Sarah helps women package their expertise into high ticket offers that actually sell. With over 17 years in coaching and finance, she’s scaled dozens of service-based businesses by helping founders lead with clarity and price with confidence. Next, we have Stephen, a sales leader, strategist, and culture builder. After rebuilding his life and business from the ground up, Steven now helps high-performance sales teams grow with systems that stick. He’s obsessed with alignment, ownership, and letting purpose lead process. And last, but certainly not least, Beth is a fractional sales leader and process coach. Beth builds outsourced sales solutions for founders who want results without micromanagement. She’s hands-on, process-driven, and deeply focused on helping teams execute consistently. Thank you to all of our panelists for being here today. How’s everyone doing?
Kelly Ann Peck: Really good. Thanks for having me.
Sara Chevere: Amazing. Thank you, Harley.
Harley Green: Before we went live, we were talking a little bit about where everybody is in the world. I think it’s kind of fun that we’ve got great coverage across the world and across the US. Maybe we take a second to just kind of go around, quick introduction and share where you’re coming from today. We’ll start with you, Kelly.
Kelly Ann Peck: Hi everybody. My name is Kelly Ann Peck. I am sitting in St. Petersburg and I’m closing on my home tomorrow, so I will be moving 30 minutes up to Palm Harbor. So I’m very excited.
Harley Green: Awesome, thank you, Kelly. Stephen, you wanna go next?
Stephen R. Orefice: Yeah, I’m located here in the beautiful DFW Metroplex, Dallas, Fort Worth. So I’m a proud Texan now, but former New Yorker and yeah, just big in the home improvement industry here in DFW.
Harley Green: Awesome. And Sarah?
Sara Chevere: So I am like you, Harley, so I’m location independent. And at the moment, I am in Austin, Texas.
Harley Green: Awesome. All right, Beth, where are you coming from today?
Beth McClary-Wolford: I’m coming from the scenic city in Chattanooga, Tennessee. But I know that Texas is hot too, so we are having a heat wave. I was sitting out on a porch originally and I thought, “my goodness, bless his heart.”
Harley Green: Love it. Chattanooga. Nice. And I’m coming from Wallingford, England. So we’re enjoying our summer here in the UK with a little bit milder weather, which we’re very much enjoying. All right. Well, let’s start with the obvious. Beth, I’m going to send this one to you first. Why do so many growing businesses think they have a sales system when what they really have is just a string of people and tools?
Beth McClary-Wolford: Wow, you’re really kicking it off. The reality is that as business owners, as human beings, and we are the subjects of great marketing, we think if we keep buying stuff and layering it on top of whatever we have, that it’s going to fix our problems. And unfortunately, that doesn’t fix our problems. It just adds complexity and more layers. And so sometimes you have to strip it down to the bare bones and take it back to the real basics and say, okay, what is it we’re really trying to accomplish? Let’s not buy anything else. Let’s not layer anything else on top of it. Let’s just figure out what it is we’re trying to accomplish and see what you have that fits. We want that quick fix. We want that magic pill that’s going to make wonderful things happen. And that isn’t necessarily what happens. You just get a rotten onion, as I call it, with lots of bad layers.
Harley Green: Awesome. Yeah. Great insight there. Anybody else on the panel want to add to that?
Sara Chevere: Yeah, so one of the things that I notice with many entrepreneurs, service-based businesses and consultants is that they keep buying courses that probably they never finish. Like how many of you have purchased many courses and said yes, thinking they’d be very supportive, but they have not really resolved the problem? Not only that, but now they go to the next program, or the next high ticket, or the next mastermind, and then they’re just accumulating things. Or they feel that they’re not ready because they need to get these certifications or this degree. And the reality is that it just creates a lot of confusion in what they offer, instead of having a flow—an intentional flow—on how they provide their information and how they support their clients. A lot of times it’s lack of clarity, having clear messaging that attracts their ideal client, and having an offer that provides a big transformation.
Stephen R. Orefice: If I can add, I love what you said about that. I’m a baseball coach at heart—I played Division II ball—and I always go back to fundamentals. It’s so important for business because as we scale, I love the scaling process, but it’s very easy to get unwound in the chaos. Sometimes you’ve got to take a step back from all the chaos and go back to the fundamentals—websites, CRM, focusing on your clients, focusing on conversations with your employees to better their growth. Sometimes we become too innovative with all this AI stuff and everything that’s coming out now, but that old school, face-to-face connection with your client or with your employee goes a long way. That’s something I’m experiencing now. We’re dialing back in our company and we’re putting focus on our customers.
Harley Green: All right, well, this next one, Stephen, I think is a good one to start with you. You kind of mentioned dialing back. What was your moment of truth—when you realized your sales process needed to evolve or was going to stall or blow up?
Stephen R. Orefice: I’m an A personality. So once you hit that point of rust out, burnout, or knockout—call it what you will—you hit that phase mentally, physically, spiritually where you just can’t take on any more. That was the lightbulb moment. I went back to my baseball days and realized that anything I’ve ever done in a team setting allowed us to achieve things we never imagined. That’s when you need to dial back and go into what I call the “process and procedure phase.” Because without processes and procedures, you can never scale. Otherwise, you’re always doing minute tasks or running yourself into the ground 12, 16, 18 hours a day. I was doing that during the pandemic. I hit the rust out and burnout phase. After that, when I started my own company, I came in with experience. My wife and I are business partners. We’re growing a team—we have install teams, communication, and a CRM that handles a lot of the small stuff. We help each other not take on too much so we can have that family-work balance, which is so important. I know people say balance doesn’t exist for entrepreneurs, but I believe there’s a way to maximize your potential by finding it within your business and your life.
Harley Green: Awesome. Anybody else have a moment of truth they want to share real quick here?
Kelly Ann Peck: Sure. Last year I decided—my company got bought in 2022. I worked with an amazing coach that bought my company, and then I decided, this isn’t my client anymore. I absolutely love this person who bought my company, but I wanted to figure out what I wanted to do next. I think my husband freaked out because he was like, “My gosh, she’s going to go back to being an entrepreneur again.” And I see a lot of laughs right now because, you know, our spouses and significant others don’t always realize they’re on this ride with us when we start these companies. So my husband was like, “Okay, what are we planning?” And I’m like, “You know what? I’m not going to do what I did before.” It goes back to what Beth and Sarah were talking about. When I started my second company, I thought I had to have a website, I had to have this and that. But I’m a salesperson at heart. What I really needed to do was just figure out what I wanted to do—and just go and have conversations. So last August, that’s exactly what I did. I just had an open heart and was open to every opportunity and every conversation that came my way. And I have landed numerous clients—my dream clients—without having to do all the “big stuff.” They wanted to work with me because of me—not because I had a website or certain marketing in place. I was able to have real conversations to help them get to the “yes,” and to know that I could fix the problems they were facing. That headspace of standing on the mountain and being open to opportunities, instead of being stressed out, really helped. It’s been a big reason for my success this past year.
Sara Chevere: I want to follow that. One thing I realized when I was in all of that chaos was that I wasn’t doing my business in alignment. I sat down and visualized—who is the person I see in the future? Who is that Sarah that’s super successful, living in alignment, living her vision and ideal lifestyle? Then I asked her, “Where do I need to go? What do I need to do to become you now?” And I’ll be honest—it was hard. When I heard what I needed to do, I resisted. I felt like I wasn’t ready. But once I listened to that vision and brought it into the present, I started living the life I wanted and building a business that aligned with it. That alignment allowed me to serve my clients at a high level—helping them live their vision as well. So to anyone watching: visualize your future self and ask, “Who do I get to be to become you now?” Stop waiting. Start living that vision today.
Stephen R. Orefice: Yeah, I want to add to what Sarah said. One thing that changed my life was not getting addicted to the company name—but getting addicted to the people and the processes. Companies open and close. People move on. If you get attached to processes, procedures, and people, that’s where it gets exciting. If something falls off now, it doesn’t bother me. I know I can recreate it. The confidence, the energy, and the experience are all there. We have a gift as entrepreneurs to do whatever we want. Once you find balance and alignment, you can create the life you want—your own field of dreams.
Harley Green: Thank you. All right, Kelly, this one’s for you first—you’re the expert on pipelines. How do you start building a system that converts leads without needing you to check in every day? Where’s the first fix?
Kelly Ann Peck: When you’re starting out—or launching a new service—it doesn’t matter how long you’ve been in business. You need to start by talking to your circle of influence. That includes your biggest cheerleaders, repeat clients, or, if you’re brand new, it’s simply, “I have a new business, and I’m excited to tell you who I help.” The most important part of building a pipeline is movement. Some people get stuck before they even take that first step. I’ve been there. But having movement is everything. Go out, build relationships, have real conversations. Also, I’m a huge believer in two things:
Use a CRM to follow up. The fortune is in the follow-up.
Have a CRM that lets them sign a proposal and pay immediately. Don’t lose the deal at the payment stage.
If you don’t have a CRM, an amazing spreadsheet can work. But you must follow up—and ask for the yes. Everyone wants to get to the “happy dance” moment of the sale, but you have to fall in love with selling. A lot of small business owners say they hate sales. But you have to become the #1 salesperson in your business. Sales is what puts cash in the bank. And you also need to be in rooms where your actual clients are. When I was figuring out what to do last year, I followed my own advice. I didn’t have a job—but instead of going back to corporate, I just landed deals. I had conversations and created movement. It takes time to close deals—whether from raving fans or strangers on the street. And here’s the thing—we sell every day. I sell my kids on brushing their teeth, my husband on furniture, my daughter on when she can use her iPad. We’re selling all day long. So lean into that and create movement. That’s how people get to know what you offer.
Harley Green: And for them to say, yes, you can help me—and for you to land the deal. But starting out, it’s follow-up, it’s conversations, and it’s rinse and repeat.
Beth McClary-Wolford: I always ask people, “How bad do you want it?” Yes, I want you to go build your field of dreams, but if you build it, they won’t come unless you talk about it. Even Kevin Costner in the movie went out and talked about it! Every presentation I give, I say, “Everybody sells.” And you can watch people want to crawl under the table. They say, “No, I don’t.” Yes, you do. Everyone in your company sells. Anyone interacting with a buyer is selling. Because selling isn’t bad. It’s about helping people. It’s about providing solutions. It’s not manipulation—it’s about making a difference with what you’re doing. Changing that perception is hard. Somewhere as we grow up, we lose that resilience. Think about kids in the grocery store—“Mom, I want M&Ms.” “No, we have dinner soon.” “Mom, I’ll wait until after dinner.” That persistence fades as we get older. But action is key. Like Kelly said, the more you tell your story, the better.
Sara Chevere: One of the big gaps I see in selling is people view it as something negative. Or they’re afraid they’ll lose the client if they try. I want to go beyond just “selling.” Let’s talk about making offers. Because if we don’t make offers to our audience, we’re doing them a disservice. I get emails that are filled with value—but with no offer. So I’m left asking, “Who is this person? What are they offering?” Instead of thinking you’re “selling,” remember—you’re serving. Your audience already wants what you offer. But they can’t buy it if you don’t offer it. So the invitation is: make offers. Make them so you can serve your audience and help them get results. Many fear sounding salesy or getting unsubscribed from emails. Or they worry that people won’t like them. Well, if they unsubscribe or don’t like it, they weren’t your audience anyway. When you speak to your ideal client, offer value, and make offers, the sale becomes inevitable. You’re offering something valuable—and that’s what matters.
Stephen R. Orefice: Exactly. People move for either pain or pleasure. I use something I learned from Grant Cardone every day in follow-ups: Is it the price? Is it not solving your problem? Or is it something else? Those three questions uncover what’s really holding someone back. And today, sales isn’t just about selling—it’s about giving people options, a relationship, and a seamless experience. It should be easy to do business with you. So stop talking, listen, and let them tell you what they want. They will.
Harley Green: Great insights, everyone. Beth, going back to you—as a sales leader, where do you see founders and leaders wasting the most time or energy in their sales process?
Beth McClary-Wolford: Not understanding the value of a lead. We become so transactional—if we don’t get the deal, we just let it go. But what about following up? They paid to generate that lead. But if it falls off, they don’t go back. They don’t build the relationship. So while they think they’re saving time, they’re really wasting money. Even worse—it’s a missed opportunity. People make decisions they regret. Someone else will get that business—because they followed up. I always say, I help people find their people, love their people, and keep their people. That means customers. Nurturing, loving, and showing value are critical. I read that 85% of customers cannot communicate the value you bring. That means we’re not selling the value—or maybe the salesperson doesn’t even know it. And that starts at the top. Messaging needs to come from the top—and it has to be consistent across the organization. If it’s just you—then write it and own it. Talk about what value you bring and what makes you different.
Harley Green: Stephen, you talk a lot about alignment. How does that show up in a healthy sales ecosystem? And what are some signs it’s missing?
Stephen R. Orefice: I’m big on company culture. This is my third time scaling a company. I’ve worked in family-owned businesses, corporate structures, and even Fox Television. You can tell from someone’s face if they enjoy their work. If you need to constantly motivate people to show up—you’ve got a problem. After the pandemic, people started reassessing what’s important—time, freedom, money, family. If you can meet those needs, they’ll carry your brand forward. It’s like a baseball team during a World Series season—162 games is a grind. But they all row in the same direction. Business is the same. You need a team, communication, and understanding what matters to your people. It’s not about what matters to corporate anymore. And when everyone’s dreams align with the company dream—that’s when the brand becomes authentic. You know alignment is real when people look around the company and don’t even know who the CEO is. That’s the magic. That’s the goal. I’ve been there, lost it, and I’m building it again.
Harley Green: Powerful. Sarah, you help leaders step into premium pricing with confidence. How do strong sales systems support that shift and keep those conversions consistent?
Sara Chevere: One of the things I teach is to have a specific flow when making offers. I call myself “The Empire Architect” because what I’m great at is breaking things down step-by-step. You need to know exactly what to do in order to connect with your audience—so that when you share your message, they’re ready to buy and become premium clients. Without a flow—what I call the Offer Flow Framework—it’s really hard to convert at that level. Connection, intimacy, and openness are what build trust. Also, I love AI, but let me clarify. What I don’t love are fake videos of fake people. Those don’t connect emotionally. Your audience knows what’s real and what’s not. To really connect, you have to show up and share the strategy that’s working for you—so they can apply it to their own businesses. What’s often missing is clarity: in your message, in your steps, in your process. And without that, it’s very difficult to provide real value or connect with your ideal audience.
Harley Green: Absolutely. And Kelly, you’ve coached teams through downturns and still helped them grow. Can you share some systems or rituals that made a difference during chaotic times?
Kelly Ann Peck: Sure. When teams hit a downturn—plateaued revenue, or decline—the first thing I recommend is to look at the data. The numbers don’t lie. Often, people don’t know where their clients are coming from. With large teams, I always ask: Who did we market to? What closed? What kind of client was it? Or why did we see massive growth in July last year? Was it a project? Something external? Gas prices? Tariffs? Whatever the reason—look at it. Recreate what worked. The key is: study what created success, and reverse engineer it. That allows you to make smarter, faster decisions and boost sales with confidence. Once you know where your leads came from and why they converted, you can rebuild that growth intentionally.
Harley Green: So true. Let’s wrap with a rapid-fire question. For anyone watching who still feels their sales are founder-dependent—what’s one thing they could do this quarter to change that?
Beth McClary-Wolford: Ask yourself: “Does this have to be done by me?” If not—delegate it or automate it. As founders, we white-knuckle everything. We hold on. But that kills your capacity. And letting go is scary—it hurts. But do it. Even if it’s uncomfortable, it changes everything. And also—don’t expect others to sell exactly like you. They’re not the founder. We can duplicate the process—but not your energy. Adjust your expectations accordingly.
Harley Green: Great insight. We got a bonus there! Sarah?
Sara Chevere: Stop doing low-value work. If you can’t afford a full-time assistant—start with part-time. Eventually scale into having an executive assistant like what you offer, Harley. That person will take everything off your plate, so you can focus on the high-value tasks that only you can do. You’ll scale faster than you think.
Harley Green: Awesome, great points. Kelly?
Kelly Ann Peck: I promise—you get a do-over the next day. Even when things go terribly, you didn’t mess it up that bad. Sleep, hydrate, eat—then start again. The hard days are where growth actually happens. And Sarah’s point about offers—yes. It’s so much easier and faster to go out and sell a high-value offer than it is to grind for low hourly rates. You’re worth it. So is your client. The relationship comes first—but price for the transformation you deliver.
Harley Green: Awesome. Huge thank you to all of our panelists for sharing so openly—from the wins, to the mess, to the systems that make this all work. Let’s go around real quick—how can people connect with you? Beth?
Beth McClary-Wolford: Just send me an email: . You can go to my website too—superpowerstrategies.com—but email is fastest.
Harley Green: Thank you. Sarah?
Sara Chevere: My website is sheprospersher.com. That’s the best way to connect and learn more about my offer.
Harley Green: Stephen?
Stephen R. Orefice: Email is best:
Harley Green: And Kelly?
Kelly Ann Peck: Connect with me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kelly-ann-peck My phone and email are there. Thanks again for having us, Harley—we appreciate it.
Harley Green: My pleasure. And for everyone joining live—or catching the replay—thank you so much. We know how much is on your plate, and our goal is to help you grow without being buried in the day-to-day. As a thank-you, we’re giving you free access to our masterclass: Delegate to Dominate—where I walk through how top execs reclaim 15 to 30+ hours/week with the kind of strategic support we talked about today. You can watch it and unlock your bonus at: workergenix.com/bonus-masterclass
How to Stop Being the Bottleneck and Start Scaling Smarter Featuring Eden Lovejoy, Creator of the Virtual GM Matrix
If you’re a founder or business leader feeling buried in the day-to-day, chances are—you are the bottleneck. And that’s not a weakness. It’s a signal that you’ve outgrown your current structure, and it’s time for your next level of leadership.
In a recent episode of the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast, Harley Green sat down with Eden Lovejoy, fractional COO and creator of the Virtual GM Matrix, to talk about how leaders can finally step out of the weeds and lead with clarity.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
🔑 Key Takeaways from the Episode:
1. Leadership Begins with Mindset Most operational pain stems from a mindset block. Eden explains that many business owners are hesitant to delegate because they fear losing their value or control. The first step? Trust your team—and accept that leadership is about thinking, not just doing.
2. Delegation ≠ Abandonment Letting go doesn’t mean walking away. Delegation should come with structured feedback loops. Whether that’s weekly check-ins, data dashboards, or regular reporting, your systems should empower—not isolate—your team.
3. The Virtual GM Matrix: A Framework for Freedom Eden’s framework has helped countless companies streamline operations and build performance cultures. It’s built on three pillars:
Cultural Alignment: Mission, vision, and values that guide decisions.
Organizational Clarity: Defined roles, accountability, and authority.
Feedback Loops: Real-time insights and growth mechanisms.
4. Scaling Isn’t Just “More” Scaling isn’t doing more of what got you here—it’s often doing things differently. Eden urges leaders to audit their systems and ask: “Will this still work at 10x the volume?” If not, it’s time to evolve.
5. Work With Your Business Forget the outdated “on vs. in” dichotomy. Eden champions a new approach: work with your business by distributing leadership across your team. That’s where freedom and growth really begin.
🎯 Final Thought:
Scaling smart isn’t about hustle—it’s about systems, mindset, and trusting your team to lead. If you’re ready to reclaim your time and unlock sustainable growth, this episode is a must-listen.
Schedule a discovery call to stop being the bottleneck and start building a business that runs without you.
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Transcript
Harley Green: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. Scaling a business shouldn’t require you to be the bottleneck. In this episode, Eden Lovejoy, creator of the Virtual GM Matrix and fractional COO to high-growth companies, shares how leaders can transition out of day-to-day operations by empowering their teams, installing scalable systems, and embracing a true visionary mindset. With over 30 years of business leadership and a track record of helping companies generate millions in revenue, Eden’s going to deliver a practical framework for delegation, leadership development, and sustainable growth. Eden, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Eden Lovejoy: Thanks Harley, I’m doing great. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.
Harley Green: Eden, for our audience that isn’t familiar with your background, could you share what brought you along in this journey to what you’re doing today?
Eden Lovejoy: My journey really starts from being a child in a very chaotic environment. I was the oldest of four kids, and my family was in a lot of chaos in San Francisco in the 70s. I developed a preference for organization, structure, and consistency. Years later, I realized that’s what drives me.
As a young woman, I started working, took a gap year before school, and realized I wanted to work in small to mid-sized business environments. I liked the diversity, challenge, and entrepreneurial energy. Over the years, I found myself in operational, organizational, and streamlining roles. I’m a general manager by craft and inclination—GM or COO depending on the structure.
I always wanted to impact more companies than just one. I tracked what made the most difference in operational leadership and pulled those insights into the Virtual GM Matrix. My goal is to translate that operational leadership skill set into a strong team, diversify the skill set, lean out overhead, improve operations, and build high-performance cultures.
Harley Green: Before we started recording, we talked a bit about mindset. You mentioned how it’s usually a big challenge when people step into new roles. Can you elaborate?
Eden Lovejoy: Mindset is everything. I can only coach someone so far until they hit an internal mindset block. Many of my clients have built a team, but even with growth, they don’t get relief. Often it’s because they haven’t delegated authority. Everyone still comes to the owner for answers. They haven’t shifted into trusting their team.
To delegate effectively, you must learn to trust, let people make mistakes, and not fear losing your value as a leader. When owners begin delegating, they often feel awkward—like “what am I supposed to be doing now?” The opportunity is to move into strategic visionary leadership.
Harley Green: Right, and sometimes there’s guilt around delegation. How do you help people address that?
Eden Lovejoy: We reassure them. That guilt shows up in leaders who care deeply about their people. They don’t want to be on a pedestal. But leadership is a practical skill set. Teams want to be trusted and they want their leaders to be visionary. It’s about shifting the perspective on leadership’s contribution.
Also, it’s easier to do small tasks. I remember one day realizing everything easy had been delegated and all that remained were the thoughtful things. I had to learn how to work differently.
Harley Green: What are early signs someone is the bottleneck?
Eden Lovejoy: One sign is feeling overwhelmed despite having a team. Another is when people ask questions and your first thought is “you should be able to answer that.” These are signs you haven’t empowered your team’s leadership.
Harley Green: Tell us about the Virtual GM Matrix. How does it work?
Eden Lovejoy: It has three components. First is the cultural framework—mission, vision, and values that drive decision-making. It’s not just having them, but making them actionable.
Second is organizational structure. We identify overlaps, clarify roles, assign decision-making authority, and create accountability. This shifts pressure from top leadership to the team.
Third is feedback loops and growth patterns. Delegation is not abandonment. We build feedback mechanisms and growth plans so the leader isn’t the only idea generator.
Harley Green: How do you make mission, vision, and values stick so the team can make decisions like you would?
Eden Lovejoy: Culture is a contact sport. We integrate values into daily conversations, development reviews, and even contests. It may seem awkward at first, but over time it becomes the team’s language. Like knowing what country you’re in by the language—values become the company’s language.
Harley Green: Let’s talk about feedback loops. What do they look like in practice?
Eden Lovejoy: It depends on the company’s culture. The matrix isn’t a cookie-cutter—it’s tailored. We identify key indicators, then build reporting, meeting cadences, or technology around them. One company may focus on receivables, another on POS trends—it must fit the business.
Harley Green: You talk about working with your business, not just in it. What does that mindset shift look like?
Eden Lovejoy: The old idea is to work “on” not “in” the business. But now we need to work with the business—building leadership across the team. We move from needing one GM or COO to distributing operational leadership.
Working with the business means giving your team a voice and decision-making power, based on shared values and mission. It’s not managing by consensus—it’s aligning through principles.
Harley Green: When leaders are scaling, what process do they often skip or underestimate?
Eden Lovejoy: They think scaling means doing more of the same. But real scaling requires different systems. Sometimes the people or processes that got you here won’t get you there. Leaders must leapfrog beyond what worked and build new structures for the next level.
Harley Green: What red flags show a system isn’t ready to scale?
Eden Lovejoy: If you haven’t reviewed your systems recently, that’s a red flag. Businesses grow by patching things together, but at scale, you need cohesive systems. Take time to evaluate and redesign.
Harley Green: Any simple stress tests or questions you use with clients?
Eden Lovejoy: I focus more on teaching people how to think. The matrix includes a decision-making framework for growth—helping teams vet ideas thoroughly and ask the right questions, not just chase shiny tools.
Harley Green: For leaders feeling stuck, what’s one question they should ask themselves?
Eden Lovejoy: Ask: What am I doing that I don’t want to be doing? What isn’t aligned with my heart, strength, passion, or vision? Then ask: Where does that task belong instead?
Harley Green: If people want to connect with you or get your book, where should they go?
Eden Lovejoy: Visit freebusinessbook.com. You can download a free e-book copy. I want to get this info to as many business owners as possible.
Harley Green: Thanks again for the insights and the generous gift. If this episode brought you value, hit like and subscribe so you don’t miss future strategies to help you scale smarter. And share it with someone who needs it!
