Why Scaling Feels Heavier Before It Gets Easier — And How to Fix It
For many founders and executives in $3M–$50M professional service firms, growth doesn’t create freedom. It creates weight.
The calendar gets tighter. The inbox gets deeper. Follow-ups slip. Projects stall. Every meaningful decision still routes through you.
If that sounds familiar, you’re not underperforming. You’re operating as the execution hub.
In a recent Scale Smart, Grow Fast episode, Nathan Barkocy shared how nearly losing his life reshaped his philosophy around time, leverage, and leadership — and how that mindset directly impacts business scalability.
This isn’t about motivation. It’s about structure.
The Real Bottleneck in Growing Firms
Nathan’s story begins with a near-fatal accident that forced him to rebuild from scratch. That experience sharpened one belief: time is finite, and how leaders use it determines everything.
Fast forward to running multiple real estate ventures, a restoration company in Dallas-Fort Worth, a personal brand, developments, and a growing family. Success was present. Leverage was not.
The common pattern many founders miss:
You are the follow-up hub
You are the decision filter
You are the escalation point
You are the final approval on everything
When growth increases complexity without changing structure, scaling friction increases.
This is where most delegation efforts break down.
Delegation Fails Without Structure
Many experienced operators have support. What they don’t have is structured leverage.
Nathan initially tried to delegate broadly. The result was misalignment. Too much handed off without clarity on:
What only he should own
What required proactive follow-through
What needed systems, not just assistance
True leverage required defining where his time created the highest return:
Investor conversations
Strategic partnerships
Business development
Vision and brand positioning
Tasks like content editing, posting, coordination, and administrative execution were transferred to structured support. Not casually. Not reactively. Intentionally.
The shift was not about doing less. It was about increasing the quality of leadership time.
Scaling a Service Business Without Becoming the Bottleneck
Nathan’s real estate restoration company in DFW provides a strong example.
Initially operating with a small team, growth was inconsistent. Revenue was present, but scalability was limited. Marketing experiments failed. Ad spend was inefficient. Execution depended heavily on leadership attention.
The turning point came when systems were built around:
Clear workflows
Defined ownership
Follow-up discipline
Operational delegation
Instead of competing with larger firms on ad spend, the company focused on organic growth and controlled operational expansion. Systems created predictability.
This is the difference between being busy and building scale.
The Time Audit Most Leaders Avoid
One of Nathan’s most practical recommendations is simple: track your time.
For one week, log every hour.
Then ask:
Is this where I create the highest leverage?
Am I doing $20/hour work inside a $500/hour seat?
Am I operating as a strategist or a task manager?
Executives often don’t realize how much cognitive load is consumed by low-leverage execution until they measure it.
Legacy in business does not happen without systems.
Without structure:
Execution lives in the founder
Decisions bottleneck
Growth plateaus
Multi-year scalability becomes fragile
With structure:
Teams execute without rescue
Leadership time protects strategy
Growth becomes repeatable
This is how operators move from solopreneur intensity to scalable enterprise.
What This Means for Founders and Operators
If your firm is growing but feels heavier instead of lighter, the issue is not effort. It’s architecture.
Ask yourself:
Are you still the execution hub?
Does every meaningful follow-up pass through you?
Do you have support, or do you have leverage?
Scaling without structured delegation increases stress. Scaling with leverage increases capacity.
The difference is not headcount. It is clarity around what only you should be doing.
Final Takeaway
Nathan Barkocy’s journey reinforces a simple truth: leadership bandwidth is the constraint in most growing firms.
Protecting it requires:
Intentional delegation
Defined systems
Clear ownership
Strategic use of support
Growth should expand opportunity, not compress your time.
If it feels heavier, that’s the signal to rebuild the structure — not work harder.
Watch this before you hire your next support role.
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Full Episode Transcript
Below is the complete transcript of the Scale Smart, Grow Fast episode featuring Nathan Barkocy.
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. Today we’ve got a special guest, Nathan Barcosi, and he didn’t build his business by chasing more. He built them by getting clearer on what only he should be doing. After rebuilding his life from a near fatal accident, Nathan went on to scale real estate and entrepreneurial ventures around his true wealth philosophy. In this episode, he’s gonna share what changed when he stopped being the execution hub and created real operational support.
and reclaim the focus needed to scale income, purpose, and legacy without burning out. Nathan, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Harley, thank you for having me. It’s an honor to be with you today.
Nathan, I’d love for you to share with our audience a little bit more about your background, especially that like near fatal accident that was mentioned in the intro.
Yeah, absolutely. this brings us back 10 years ago where the story really begins. I was a nationally ranked competitive cyclist. I was state champion in New Mexico, youngest to ever win the Tour of the Gila, setting records, going on the way to the Olympics, to the Tour de France, and becoming an internationally renowned competitive cyclist. That was my vision, my goal. And then in January of 2016, I was hit by a car.
at 60 miles an hour.
goodness.
So I died on the scene and the ambulance rushed me to the ICU. My parents got the call, right? My parents got the call that I was dead and that the officer had reported it as a fatality. so, I mean, God bless my parents, right? They were driving to the hospital thinking I was dead. So I was in a coma for two weeks and by God’s grace, you know, I opened my eyes for the first time two weeks later.
paralyzed. So I couldn’t move and then I went on a medical flight up to Craig Hospital in Colorado, which is where they do traumatic brain injury rehab and spinal cord injury rehab. And that is where they rolled me into the hospital on a wheelchair. I don’t remember being admitted to the hospital there, but my first memories start coming back during my recovery at that time.
And that’s where I learned how to live again. We learned how to walk again and function again. So that’s where life really started for me. And from that time, I was really passionate about bringing my message to the world about how important our time is. I thought, as a teenage boy especially, I thought that I was going to live forever. And then within an instant, within an instant,
All of that can be stripped away from you so fast. And so that’s why I really started to have a mental shift about the importance of our time, right? Because tomorrow is never promised. So I wanted to write a book. Since that day, I wanted to write a book about the importance of our time and what truly holds value in our life. Well, since that recovery, obviously I went to college and I was able to graduate high school with my class, which is great, you know, and I went through all of this
the different phases and that same passion was still driving me to create my own time, right? To create time freedom and to live today as if it’s our last day. Obviously we need to plan for the future, right? But tomorrow is never promised, right? So we needed to take action today in order to make our dreams come true, which is a very entrepreneurial mindset, right? Which is how we get into the business side of things. You know, I couldn’t trade my time as an employee.
for other people. I’ve done that many times and I was actually working with Josh McCallin up in New Jersey. He’s the owner of Accountable Equity and he fired me from when I was working with him because he told me I needed to go start my own business, right? And so that’s where we get to today, right? Which is where I’m sure you and I will dive into where we are now, how I’ve been able to scale, how I’ve utilized Workergenics to help me do so. And so I’m very honored to be with you today and to be bringing this message to your audience.
Awesome. That’s a great background, Nathan. I really appreciate you sharing that. Now, before we jump into the specifics of the business, maybe kind of stepping back a little bit, a little more meta discussion. Before you really started creating the real leverage in your businesses, what would a typical week look like for you and where were you still the bottleneck without maybe even realizing it?
Yeah, the question is, am I still the bottleneck? There’s a lot of things that I’ve realized through working with you guys at Workergenics, and also during the scaling process of my business, because there’s a difference between a solopreneur and a successful entrepreneur who is in a true capitalist, who is able to create work for others, to create opportunities for others.
and leveraging their expertise, right? In their certain fields, you’re able to scale so much faster and more effectively than having to do it all on your own. So if there was a time where I needed to realize this, was about, yeah, I mean, about a year ago when we started. And it was when I realized that I didn’t have time to do everything in order to have my businesses scale to the capacity that I needed them to. And so that’s when I really started to
put together the formulas of how to build a system. And that system is what’s going to allow you to scale. You know this too, Harley, right? That’s the only way to build your business effectively and efficiently is by creating those systems that are in place that others are able to execute and making it so easy for them to execute this, right? Not a lot of questions, just a lot of action to get it done, you know?
Absolutely, systems and people, excellent leverage there. So let’s talk more about what are your businesses that you’re focusing on now, and how did you create those systems in these businesses? I think a lot of people feel like their business is super unique and making systems to get them out of being the bottleneck is just impossible. So we’d love to hear your story with what you’re doing now and how you created some of those systems.
Yeah, it’s a great question. In reality, just point blank honesty, my systems and my businesses were spreading me thin, right? So I was pursuing multiple real estate investments at the same time. I was pursuing multiple brands. I was writing my book. I was building my personal brand. All of this stuff scaling. I’m also a father of two little boys and a husband of a beautiful bride.
I was running my family, running the businesses, running multiple developments, running investments, all of these different things at the same time. And that’s how I’ve been able to scale more effectively by bringing more people onto the team.
Delegation That Drives Sales: How Founders Free Up Time to Grow Revenue
Sales does not slow down because founders forget how to sell. It slows down because leadership bandwidth gets buried in follow-ups, scheduling, and operational drag.
In Workergenix Executive Edge Live: Delegation That Drives Sales, Harley Green and a panel of experienced operators unpacked what real delegation looks like inside growing companies and why it directly impacts revenue growth.
If you feel like every deal still runs through you, this conversation was built for you.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
The Real Sales Bottleneck Is Not Effort. It Is Clarity.
As JB Herrera explained during the panel:
“Founders don’t lose revenue because they delegate too much. They lose revenue because they delegate without clarity.”
Delegation is not about offloading work. It is about protecting executive judgment.
When everything flows through the founder:
Selling becomes reactive instead of intentional
CRM updates fall behind
Follow-ups get inconsistent
Decision fatigue increases
The ideal client profile begins to drift
Revenue erosion rarely happens dramatically. It happens gradually through small compromises and unclear ownership.
Delegation vs. Abdication
Several panelists reinforced a critical distinction: delegation is not abdication.
Delegation requires:
Clear decision boundaries
Defined ownership
Operational discipline
Governance and values alignment
Abdication happens when tasks are handed off without structure.
Eric Sambaluk shared a powerful example of protecting integrity under pressure. When faced with a short-term financial incentive that compromised company values, he chose long-term trust over immediate optics. That discipline ultimately strengthened credibility and growth.
Sales velocity depends on trust. Internally and externally.
Why Operational Discipline Protects Revenue
WendyY Bailey emphasized that founders often struggle because they try to be both the pilot and the air traffic controller.
Founders must:
Set direction
Define the ideal client profile
Clarify what decisions remain human
Build systems that support follow-through
As Jennifer White highlighted, many delegation failures are not delegation problems. They are clarity problems. Without clearly defined success criteria and psychological safety, sales teams drift or protect themselves rather than protect the company’s direction.
Sales is not just activity. It is alignment.
The Role of AI, Governance, and Human Judgment
AI can be powerful in preparation, pattern recognition, and follow-up. But as JB Herrera made clear:
“Delegation doesn’t work when tools are allowed to replace judgment.”
When AI and automation operate without governance:
Ideal client profiles shift
Messaging drifts
Values erode
Revenue becomes unstable
Human judgment must remain central. Tools should support clarity, not replace it.
High-Impact Sales-Adjacent Work Founders Should Delegate
The panel reinforced that protecting selling time requires structured delegation around:
Calendar control
Inbox management and follow-up discipline
CRM hygiene and pipeline updates
Client communication coordination
Reporting and KPI visibility
When these workflows are owned consistently, founders reclaim time to focus on revenue-generating conversations.
Delegation that drives sales is about rhythm, not relief.
Connect with the Panelists
Continue the conversation with the experts featured on this Executive Edge Live session:
Delegation that drives sales is not about productivity hacks. It is about designing structure around executive judgment.
If founders want to sell more without adding hours, they must stop being the bottleneck and start being the architect.
Growth requires clarity. Sales requires discipline. Delegation is the bridge between them.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Full Transcript
Harley Green: Hey everybody, welcome to Executive Edge Live. I’m Harley Green, Founder and CEO of Workergenix. At Workergenix, we help high-performing founders and operators reclaim time and focus by pairing them with Ultimate Executive Assistants who reduce operational drag and increase leadership bandwidth. These live sessions are one way we support the broader business community with honest, peer-level conversations about what actually works when companies are growing and time is tight.
Today’s conversation is focused on delegation that drives sales. Founders know that sales drives growth. But too often revenue opportunities stall because leadership time is buried in follow-ups, scheduling, and day-to-day execution. When everything runs through you, selling becomes reactive instead of intentional. So today, you’ll hear real-world perspectives, practical trade-offs, and honest insight from operators who’ve helped founders remove themselves as the bottleneck without breaking momentum.
And a quick note before we begin, today’s session will also be featured on our podcast, Scale Smart, Grow Fast. So if something resonates with you, you’ll be able to revisit the conversation later, wherever you get your podcasts.
So today, let’s dive in and start by meeting our panelists. Eric, we’ll go ahead and start with you. Feel free to introduce yourself and let everyone know where you’re coming from and what your business is.
Eric Sambaluk: Thanks very much, Harley. So my name is Eric Sambaluk. I’m the owner and founder of Sambaluk Consulting. It’s a business strategy firm and we help companies with everything from initiatives to projects to market entry. I’m also the Chief Growth and Strategy Officer from Nomad Cyber Concepts, which is an AI governance firm.
Harley Green: Awesome, thank you Eric for joining us. Jennifer.
Jennifer White: Good afternoon, everyone. Jennifer White with The MJW Group. We specialize in enhancing operational efficiency and leadership capabilities, delivering time and cost savings for organizations.
Harley Green: Awesome, thanks for joining us today. And JB.
JB Herrera: Hi everybody, my name is JB Herrera and I am the Founder and CEO of Synergy AI and Insight Driven Business. We specialize in designing AI ecosystems that are values-based. They’re scalable, human-first, helping organizations move beyond shiny tools to disciplined execution. We’re here in Northern California and proud to work with a whole series of small to medium-sized businesses.
Harley Green: Thank you, JB. And last but certainly not least, Wendy.
WendyY Bailey: Hi everyone. I’m Wendy Y. Bailey. I’m a fractional COO for coaches, speakers, and trainers, millionaire coaches, speakers, and trainers. And I partner with them to look at their operational infrastructure and get rid of the bottlenecks that they create. As a former coach, I’m also a leadership coach. So I coach the founder to be sure the founder understands what it takes to grow, scale, and drive revenue in a way that represents that growth for them. I’m outside of Atlanta, Georgia. And the big thing I can say is companies need operational discipline.
Harley Green: Absolutely awesome. Well, thank you for joining us, all of you guys for being here today. We’ll jump right in with the first question. This is just an open question to the panel, so feel free to jump in if you want to address it first.
So the question is, when you hear delegation that drives sales, what’s the biggest misconception you see founders make about that delegation as it relates to sales and revenue?
JB Herrera: I would agree with you, Wendy Y. I mean, really, from my perspective, the biggest misconception is that delegation is really about offloading work and becoming more efficient.
I think really delegation that drives sales is about protecting the judgment that you have in your company. Founders don’t lose revenue because they delegate too much. They lose revenue because they delegate without clarity about what decisions they must stay human about and the direction that they’re going, which activity should never require their attention in the first place.
And if they do that, then they can hire the right people and implement processes, and then delegation works.
Eric Sambaluk: I think those are both good points. I think another thing that’s important to keep in mind is people think about delegation and when they do think about delegation, they think of efficiency.
They really should be thinking about effectiveness.
When a CEO or someone else in the C-suite or a VP delegates some work, it’s not because they’re inefficient at it. It’s because they’re most effective at making high-level decisions. Somebody else to whom the task is delegated will be most effective at managing those decisions, right?
So making sure that the ball is in the right person’s strike zone is, I think, what delegation should be about.
Like JB was saying, like Wendy Y. was saying, it’s not just about, cool, I don’t have to do this task anymore. I didn’t like this. Or I don’t have to do this task anymore. This is going to take a long time.
It’s about every hour is spoken for, especially true of founders and entrepreneurs. So you want to make certain that you’re being as effective as possible with every minute, every hour that you have.
Jennifer White: And I agree with Eric’s points as well.
Sometimes founders or C-suite may think of delegation as trying to get rid of something or delegating that task rather. I think a misconception is thinking that sales is a task. It’s a driver of growing revenue as Wendy Y. stated and Eric has stated already.
And I think a big misconception is thinking delegation happens after the company is successful, when in reality it should be driven all along the growth journey.
And having that buy-in of everyone involved in that process is what really grows a company.
JB Herrera: You know, Wendy, that’s really awesome. It’s a great point. It makes me think of a metaphor like being an air traffic control system, right?
Sales doesn’t fail because you have too many planes in the air. It fails when one person is trying to fly direct, refuel, clear the landing zone, unload the packages, everything.
The founder, the CEO, the leader is really air traffic control, not the pilot of every plane, not getting into the detail of everything.
Clearly when you’re starting a business, the CEO, the leader at that point, you’re the only person that really can sell what is your passion. This is what you’re about. This is what you stand for. And that’s fine. Many CEOs continue to have that role over the long haul. There’s nothing wrong with that.
But we can’t do it on our own.
And sometimes we have this thing in our heads that says, I’m the only person that can do that. No, no, no.
You have to be the air traffic controller here and set that direction. Know where everything is at and give people and empower them with the right tools, the right processes, the right steps, the right things that they need to have to be the best that they can be.
Eric Sambaluk: That kind of points back to what Wendy Y. was saying earlier about hiring the right people, right? It’s easy to say, well, you’re overwhelmed. You’re not managing these tasks that you should be. You should go ahead and delegate it. But before you delegate it, you want to make certain that the person you’re delegating it to has the skill set and, to her point, also the context to be effective in making those decisions or doing that work. And it’s not an easy thing to do, but it is really critical.
Harley Green: Yeah, exactly. There’s a difference between delegation and abdication, right? I’m sorry, Wendy Y.
And there’s just some great insights starting off strong here. I love it.
Wendy Y., I want to go to you for this next question first. From an operational leadership perspective, where do you most often see delegation break down for founders who are trying to protect their selling time?
WendyY Bailey: Awesome, thank you.
Harley Green: JB, I want to go to you next. You work at the intersection of systems, judgment, and technology. How should founders think about delegation when tools and AI are introduced without losing clarity or that human decision-making in the sales process?
JB Herrera: Yeah, that’s a great question. It’s the core of really what I’ve stood for going back to my first jobs coming out of Apple back in the 80s. Yes, I’m an old guy.
Founders need to stop asking what can AI do or what can these tools do and start asking what judgment must remain human.
Tools and AI are phenomenal at preparation, at pattern recognition, at follow-through. But sales still lives in human judgment — reading context, sensing hesitation, knowing when not to delegate, when to delegate, what kinds of things need to be done that are supporting that particular prospect at that moment in time.
Delegation doesn’t work to tools like AI.
And I know AI very, very well. While everybody’s doing this now, my first foray into AI was in 1993. So when you start thinking specifically about what the tool is designed for, it infers based on the kinds of input we give it, but it doesn’t have the judgment that comes from experience.
And that experience comes from being around people and having your own values, your own decision-making capabilities. Those are things that an AI can be given rules about, but that’s not judgment.
Technically the danger isn’t in utilizing automation. It’s that term again, abdication. When founders let their tools make their decisions, they haven’t consciously designed anything, then clarity erodes.
And when clarity erodes, your sales go down. You start to drift if you really think about it.
So you have an ICP, an ideal client profile. And let’s just say hypothetically there are five particular points for that ideal client profile. And then you have a salesperson who comes in and they say, you know what? We got this opportunity. It’s really awesome. But they only have four points, not five.
Well, okay, it’s four of five. It’s okay. We’re going to go for it.
And so you close the deal. So now your ideal client profile is here, and now you’ve started to have somebody that’s not your ideal client profile.
And the next person comes in and they only have three out of the five. So now you’re over here.
And pretty soon your ideal client profile is here and your sales are over here on this side. And that creates all kinds of problems because your systems are designed for that ideal client profile. They’re not designed for all of these other people that are over here.
Great people, good businesses, valuable and all. But you’ve started to drift away from the things that you stand for.
That’s why human judgment has to be continuously part of the process. AI and tools don’t do that.
And I’m a technology guy. I’m going to be the guy that says we need to build systems and build tools. And I do do that. But it’s always with humans first.
It’s human brilliance augmented with AI.
Eric Sambaluk: Yeah, I think JB makes a great point. I think AI is really an exciting and kind of frightening new realm for a lot of companies, especially really every size of company.
More and more companies are starting to realize the need for governance in their use of AI. They have their policies, but they don’t necessarily have their guardrails up. And that’s in many cases because they don’t know where those guardrails should be.
So I think working with the right partners to help find where those should be for your business — because it is a tailored solution. It’s not a one-size-fits-all baseball cap.
I think that’s a really critical thing as you start to use AI as a force multiplier. It’s a really good point, JB.
JB Herrera: Yeah, thanks Eric. We should probably talk from a governance perspective because we need to really advise leaders, especially when we come talk about sales and how the implementation of that works.
The danger of allowing it to run unfettered is really big for any company.
It doesn’t take very long for that little drift to happen.
Eric Sambaluk: For sure.
JB Herrera: And that’s on the sales side. And now if you have marketing people who are drifting in a different direction, and if you have your support team that’s drifting in a slightly different direction, all of a sudden the focus that’s absolutely required for success has failed you.
Eric Sambaluk: Yeah, it can change the company’s whole DNA.
JB Herrera: Absolutely. The one thing that I always remember is when Steve Jobs came back to Apple. And the first thing he did, he said, okay, we’re going to get rid of all these products, all these different lines. We’re going to focus on three products and three products only.
And that’s what they did.
I was fortunate. I was there to see that happen.
And really what every entrepreneur should be considering right now is making sure that they identify what they stand for and make sure they have their values and goals — not just something that sits up on the wall, but something that’s a living document that everybody believes in.
They’re pulling in the same direction.
And when they pull in that same direction, now you can implement tools on top of that. Now you can define processes that everybody believes in because they’re part of it all. And then you can use AI.
And then it’s powerful.
Jennifer White: And I just want to bring up one more point that Eric and JB hit on and Wendy Y. just did as well is the governance piece.
You know, I get emails all day long about, hey, we can help you implement some KPIs, dashboards in your company and increase operational efficiency and productivity. And I’m like, how did that intent signal get to you about my company and what we do? Something’s off there.
So we have to be careful with utilizing AI and really honing in on our process, our ICP, like JB said, but our process. Because we know Deming always said, if you can’t describe what you’re doing as a process, you don’t know what you’re doing.
And right now it feels like there’s just spray and pray all over the place when it comes to sales and lead generation.
Harley Green: Yeah, excellent points. And it sounds like there’s a lot of overlap too from the first question of how you appropriately delegate to people as well as with the AI and technology tools. That’s interesting to see that intersection there.
Going over to you, Eric, with your background in strategy and execution, where do founders most underestimate the operational discipline required to delegate sales-adjacent work effectively?
Eric Sambaluk: It’s a great question.
I think one of the biggest areas is for companies that provide a sales service. If you’re, let’s say you’re a plumbing service, you can tell what hours of the day you are focused on your actual bread and butter, the service you provide versus how much time you spend marketing yourself.
If you’re a small company, it’s the founder doing that. It gets a lot more complicated when you are a seller and a lot of companies out there have a service that is basically building referrals or helping to augment other companies’ presence in social media or broadening their sales funnels.
For those professionals, I find it’s very hard for a lot of them to differentiate and distinguish the time they should be focused on doing the work versus the time they should be focused on building their own brand.
Now, when you can delegate — when you have somebody who is the right person in the right seat and you have the full context they need in order to manage that properly — then you can properly delineate those things and work on them in the most efficient way you can.
But it’s very hard, especially when a company is starting out, when a founder is just starting out, to know where do I turn this switch off and turn this switch on.
They’re the same muscles that you’re using, but you’re using them in different ways and you have to be using them at the right times in the right ways.
JB Herrera: That’s absolutely true, especially when you’re trying to handle multiple roles at the same time.
Marketing is so different operationally. If you have a trades business, the actual physical work requires a lot of discipline, energy, effort, knowledge, experience, and skill.
Marketing requires knowledge, experience, and skill as well, but in a different way.
Being able to understand what your strengths are and where your gaps are — where you’re not as strong — is one of the opportunities for founders and leaders to help them build the team around them.
What Wendy Y. was talking about — put the right person on the bus and help them operationally build the business of their dreams.
As a founder, as a CEO, as a leader, we have a direction that we want to go. I tried to do it on my own many, many years ago. It doesn’t work.
You need to have the right people around you and understand honestly what your skills are so that you can say, you know what, this is the time that I need to be out here learning more about my craft and I need to bring someone else on board who can help with that sales.
Or conversely, if that CEO is really great at sales, that’s great, but let’s bring the other people on so they can operate consistent with the direction that the company wants to go and use good human judgment making decisions to take the whole organization one step at a time toward that goal.
Harley Green: Awesome. All right, let’s move over to a question for you, Jennifer.
You’ve seen how change initiatives fail when people aren’t considered. What human or behavioral factors most commonly derail delegation efforts tied to sales execution?
Jennifer White: Very good question.
From the operational leadership development work that my firm does, we see a few things when it comes to sales-focused delegation.
First, I call the producer-manager trap.
This is where leaders tend to believe real work is activity-based. Every task should be assigned to someone versus creating a uniform identity and defining what you want your company to stand for and the services you provide.
These leaders rise through execution. They don’t always understand from a leadership capability standpoint how it feels to delegate without abandoning their core identity because all they know is do the work, do the work, do the work.
But what is the meaning behind that work?
So you have to be careful about the leadership versus management track of that type of behavior when you’re commanding a team.
Another issue we see is clarity masquerading as a delegation problem.
JB hinted at this quite a bit. Not being clear on what you need to delegate or when to delegate — not just the how, but the what and the when and the who.
One clarity gap we see often is not defining clear success criteria.
For a sales team, what does good look like?
Is it number of leads generated per week? Quality leads? Conversion rates? Getting into the category of business you want?
If you want to get into consumer products, what activities are you doing to make sure you are present in the consumer products industry?
A third factor is psychological safety.
Your team has to trust you in order to perform well. The more a team trusts their leader, the more engaged they are.
You have to play on empathy and emotional intelligence as a leader in order to drive a team.
Unless you’re cognizant of those areas, change initiatives and delegation tied to sales will struggle.
Eric Sambaluk: Yeah, it’s really interesting. Jennifer, what you said really just rang true for me on a lot of different levels.
When you think about bringing people together into an organization and all pulling in the same direction, the level of trust has to be very high.
And unfortunately, in the heat of battle — as we’re going to get to in public companies — it’s the end of the quarter, right? Because you have quarterly earnings that you have to announce.
And in small companies that are private, it’s not necessarily the quarter end, but it might be every month end.
So that ends up being a true test of the direction of your company, of your decision-making, and of the decision-making of all the members of your team.
They may decide that, you know what, I gotta close this. I gotta make this happen. I’m tasked with doing that.
And maybe our goals — the goals that have been set out and how we’re being compensated — incentivize the person to close more deals.
But that measurement may be inconsistent with the direction of the company.
We want to close deals, but we want to close the right deals.
So now you have a governance issue, right Eric? And then you have a human problem because someone says, “You told me you wanted me to close this deal, and now you’re telling me I can’t close the deal.”
It’s not that you can’t close the deal. It’s that you have to close the right deal.
If we didn’t talk about that before, now all of a sudden trust breaks down.
And now you have challenges all over the place simply because you didn’t understand that human component — the human factor of how we need to work together.
Jennifer White: And I think that’s why change management is so important, but yet it’s always swept under the rug and people don’t really realize its true existence.
Someone has to be the white knight. They have to lead the charge.
The messaging has to always be clear and consistent, leveled with the integrity and values of the brand and the company.
Until someone steps up to challenge the status quo or challenge the bad habits that may come into an environment, you’ll always have those little seeps that get into a company and start making it negative.
And that’s not what we want.
There is truth to someone being honest.
In JB’s case, he was able to do that. And sometimes it allows people to see themselves in the mirror and realize what’s really happening.
Taking the time to acknowledge that with their team and turn it around — those are the types of clients we absolutely love to work with.
The ones that are transparent, cohesive, and not afraid to challenge the status quo.
JB Herrera: You know what, it’s really interesting you use the word integrity.
That’s a broad term.
What my experience is, many people would not define it the same way and don’t have a story that explains it even in a similar fashion.
So for us as leaders of our organization, it’s incumbent on us to identify not only how we define our core values, but explain them in such a way that everybody feels it and can incorporate it into their role.
In sales, it’s even more important.
Because in sales, generally it’s a money-focused reward system.
And a money-focused reward system doesn’t necessarily translate into a values-based reward system.
So looking at it from that perspective, if we can identify what these principles are, it will go a long way toward making sure you have the right people on your sales team.
People who will acknowledge that maybe I shouldn’t do this particular deal, and I’m going to choose not to do that.
And report that up through the sales team and be rewarded for that — because that’s a great decision for the company.
But we don’t necessarily measure that.
So one of the things we try to build into our AI platform for small businesses is measurement of those types of decisions that are not traditionally measured.
Measure what matters.
And if that’s what matters in your organization, you better put the implementation in place that enables you to do that.
Harley Green: Well, thank you everyone so much. We’re coming up on time here.
I want to have one final opportunity for those that have been listening and want to continue the conversation with you.
What’s the best way for people to connect with you, whether it’s LinkedIn, website?
We’ll start with you, Wendy.
WendyY Bailey: You can connect with me on LinkedIn, Wendy Y. Bailey. I’m also at wendyybailey.com.
Harley Green: Thank you, Wendy.
Eric, what’s the best way for people to connect with you?
Eric Sambaluk: Yes, I am on LinkedIn. My last name is a little hard to spell, but it’s S-A-M-B-A-L-U-K.
I also have my website at sambaluk-consulting.com.
Love to have a conversation with anybody who wants to nerd out over strategy or initiatives or AI governance.
Excited to talk with you.
Harley Green: Thank you, Eric.
Jennifer, how can people connect with you?
Jennifer White: You can find me on LinkedIn at jenniferwhite, MBA.
Also our website, themjwgrp.com.
And similar to Eric, I geek out on all things numbers, Excel spreadsheets, KPIs, supply chain, manufacturing.
Glad to see everyone here.
Harley Green: Awesome. Thank you, Jennifer.
And JB, what’s the best way for our audience to connect with you?
JB Herrera: You can connect with me on LinkedIn, JB Herrera.
I also have a Substack that I write every week specifically on values-driven AI ecosystems and how you can implement them safely, how you can use AI effectively, and more importantly, with the right team — as we’ve talked about today.
So synergyai.io is my website.
But LinkedIn is primarily where you can reach me.
Harley Green: Thank you, JB.
And thank you to all of our panelists for your clarity, honesty, and real-world insight that you shared today.
And thank you to everyone who joined us live.
Delegation isn’t about doing less.
It’s about building the structure and leadership capacity that removes you as the bottleneck and keeps execution moving without constant rescue.
That’s why we’ve created the Executive Efficiency Blueprint to help you turn today’s ideas into clear ownership, consistent follow-through, and better use of your leadership time.
You can get the Executive Efficiency Blueprint at workergenix.com/EEBlive.
We’ll drop the link in the show notes.
And again, thank you all for joining us.
We’ll see you all on the next Executive Edge Live and on our podcast, Scale Smart, Grow Fast.
Why Entrepreneurs Feel Empty at the Top — and How Purpose, Adventure, and Alignment Change Everything
Many entrepreneurs believe the next milestone—more revenue, more scale, more recognition—will finally bring fulfillment. Yet for many founders, growth only amplifies burnout, isolation, and a quiet sense of emptiness.
In a recent episode of Scale Smart, Grow Fast, host Harley Green sat down with Mike Brcic, founder of Wayfinders, to unpack why this happens and what leaders can do differently.
This conversation is a powerful reminder that how you scale matters just as much as how far you scale.
The Early Seeds of Entrepreneurship and Transformation
Mike’s journey began long before Wayfinders. At 20 years old, he took a six‑month backpacking trip through Southeast Asia, Nepal, and India—long before social media, travel blogs, or digital convenience.
With limited money and no clear plan, Mike and his girlfriend took a risk that would shape his future: buying handmade shirts in Kathmandu and selling them in Amsterdam’s Vondelpark. What started as survival turned into Mike’s first taste of entrepreneurship—and a powerful lesson in creativity, courage, and trust.
That experience planted two lifelong themes:
Getting off the beaten path creates the deepest growth
Discomfort often leads to transformation
Why Entrepreneurs Burn Out as They Scale
Later, as founder of a fast‑growing travel company, Mike experienced what many high‑performing entrepreneurs face:
Aggressive scaling driven by external validation
Increasing stress and responsibility at the top
Less time for health, family, and meaningful relationships
Despite hitting ambitious goals, Mike found himself asking a hard question: “What happens after I win?”
As Mike explains, many founders unconsciously chase scale to feel worthy, seen, or validated. The result is a cycle where every milestone only creates the need for the next one.
Scaling With Alignment, Not Ego
Mike isn’t anti‑growth. He’s anti‑growth for the wrong reasons.
True, sustainable scale happens when:
The business is deeply aligned with who you are
Growth serves customers, not ego
Systems support freedom instead of creating more pressure
One of the most counterintuitive lessons Mike shares is this: businesses often run better when the founder steps back.
When leaders let go of control:
Teams gain confidence
Decision‑making improves
Founders reclaim time, energy, and clarity
Why Nature, Discomfort, and Adventure Matter
This philosophy is at the heart of Wayfinders.
Mike creates immersive experiences for entrepreneurs in some of the most remote places on earth—from Mongolia to Bhutan—where comfort is limited and certainty disappears.
These environments force leaders to:
Surrender control
Slow down
Listen to themselves
Away from constant notifications and expectations, many founders reconnect with what Mike calls “the soul”—the deeper part of themselves that knows what truly matters.
The results are often profound:
Letting go of misaligned businesses
Healing strained relationships
Rebuilding businesses around purpose, not pressure
One Simple Practice Every Founder Can Try This Week
Mike’s advice is deceptively simple:
Turn everything off. Go into nature. Sit quietly.
No phone. No journal. No agenda.
Even a few hours of uninterrupted stillness can surface insights that years of hustle suppress. For many entrepreneurs, this becomes the first step toward building a business—and a life—that feels aligned instead of exhausting.
Final Takeaway
Scaling smart isn’t about doing more. It’s about doing what matters—on purpose.
When growth is rooted in alignment, leaders don’t just build bigger businesses. They build better lives.
Book a discovery call to see how the right executive support helps you scale with clarity, alignment, and control—without burnout or chaos. Click here to subscribe.
Full Podcast Transcript
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. Today we’re joined by Mike Brcic, founder of Wayfinders, a community-driven movement helping entrepreneurs find deeper connection and meaning through transformative adventures in some of the world’s most remote places. His work sits at the intersection of business growth and human connection. Today we’re unpacking how adventure, vulnerability, and community can reshape the way leaders scale, lead, and live. Get ready for a conversation that goes beyond strategy into what truly fuels transformation.
Yeah, thrilled to be here. Looking forward to it.
You’ve built an incredible career around the idea that adventure can change not just lives, but leadership itself. Can you take us back to the moment when you realized travel and connection could become a path to transformation for entrepreneurs?
I think it was a gradual reveal. The biggest part of that reveal happened when I was 20, in between first and second year university. I took a year off—six months saving money and six months traveling through Southeast Asia, Nepal, and India. We started in Indonesia and moved through Malaysia, Thailand, Nepal, and India.
This was 1991–92, before the internet or travel blogs. Back then, the Lonely Planet Guide was the only real resource. What I discovered was that it didn’t take much effort to get off the beaten path—and that’s where the most meaningful experiences were.
That’s when I caught the travel bug. Another transformative moment came when we realized we were about to run out of money. We had $3,500 Canadian for six months after flights. Southeast Asia was cheap, but heading to Amsterdam with only $500 left didn’t seem realistic.
In Kathmandu, I noticed beautiful embroidered shirts selling for two or three dollars. I thought someone in Amsterdam might pay more. I convinced my girlfriend to spend $300 of our last $500 filling two duffel bags with shirts. We took them to Amsterdam, sold $1,500 worth in one day at Vondelpark, rented an apartment, and lived comfortably for the rest of the trip.
That experience—travel combined with my first taste of entrepreneurship—planted the seeds for what has now become a 27-year career in travel and transformation.
That’s an incredible story, and it really shows the mindset behind taking that leap.
We almost had nothing to lose. We were going to run out of money either way, so it felt like a worthwhile risk.
Many leaders chase growth but feel isolated at the top. What emotional or relational patterns do you see with high-performing entrepreneurs?
I’ve lived this myself. With my previous company, Sacred Rides, we aggressively scaled after raising investment capital. We expanded fast, grew the team, and set ambitious goals.
One day I realized I could see myself achieving everything—and feeling empty afterward. Around the same time, I was reading Ego Is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday and attended a session where the question was asked, “Where are you seeking validation and why?”
I realized I was chasing growth to feel worthy. More revenue, more recognition—it never filled the hole. It only increased stress, damaged relationships, and hurt my health.
I sold that company and started Wayfinders with a different approach—focusing on alignment, value, and patient growth. Scale can be beautiful, but only if it’s done for the right reasons.
How can leaders balance systems and scale while staying authentic and aligned?
Most founders struggle to let go. They believe no one can do it as well as they can. But what I discovered coaching entrepreneurs is that the real issue isn’t systems—it’s internal systems.
I’d ask clients to take one day off a month. Then a half day. Eventually, I’d ask them to spend time alone in nature—no phone, no journal, just sitting quietly.
When leaders step away, two things happen: they reconnect with what matters, and their teams step up. Businesses often run better when the founder gets out of the way.
Tell us about the environments you create through Wayfinders.
Wayfinders is built on three elements: adventure, community, and transformation.
The adventures are intentionally uncomfortable. I don’t tell participants exactly what will happen. Entrepreneurs are used to control—this teaches surrender and trust.
We create safe spaces for vulnerability where leaders can share challenges they usually carry alone. Through facilitation, reflection, and time in wild environments, people reconnect with their inner voice.
The transformations are profound. People leave misaligned businesses, heal relationships, and reconnect with what truly matters.
For someone feeling stuck right now, what’s one actionable step they can take this week?
Go into nature. Turn everything off. Sit quietly. No phone. No agenda.
You’re starting a conversation with your soul. When you listen, insights come—through intuition, dreams, or unexpected connections. Trusting that voice leads to a business and life that feels aligned and joyful.
Where can listeners connect with you?
The best place is way-finders.com. Joining the mailing list is the best way to stay informed about future experiences.
If you got value from today’s episode, subscribe, rate, and share it with another business leader who might need this message. Until next time—keep scaling smart.
Key Lessons from the Executive Edge Live Panel on Sustainable Growth
Scaling a business is exciting—but for many founders, growth quietly turns into chaos, burnout, and stalled execution.
In this Executive Edge Live panel, hosted by Harley Green, Founder & CEO of Workergenix, four seasoned operators and advisors share what actually makes growth scalable, sustainable, and leadership-friendly.
If you’re a founder or CEO planning to scale in 2026, here’s what you need to know.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Vision Isn’t the Problem—Capacity Is
Most leaders don’t lack vision. They lack bandwidth.
When everything runs through the founder, growth plans collapse under calendar overload and decision fatigue. The panel emphasized planning around real capacity, not hope.
Takeaway: If your time is maxed out, your growth plan is fiction.
Leaders Consistently Underestimate Risk, Time, and Cost
Entrepreneurs are wired to take risks—but that strength is also a liability.
Philip Williams (The Numbers Advisors) shared that most leaders underestimate how long and how expensive scaling will be.
Rule of thumb: Add 50% more time and money to your growth plan.
Sustainable growth requires financial discipline, contingency planning, and advisors who will challenge assumptions.
Scaling Requires the Right People—Not Just More People
Growth exposes talent gaps fast.
Justin Janowski (Faith2Influence) highlighted one of the hardest leadership responsibilities: letting go of the wrong people, even when you care about them.
Holding on too long creates drag across the organization and limits who the company can become.
Hard truth: Protecting the future sometimes means making uncomfortable decisions today.
Simplicity Beats Complexity in Growth Planning
Many growth plans fail because they’re too complex to execute.
Bryan Boettger (Estate Four) introduced a powerful framework using fidelity levels:
Low fidelity for long-term vision (3–5 years)
Medium fidelity for near-term priorities
High fidelity for immediate execution
Clear milestones and stage gates matter more than detailed forecasts.
Execution Risk Is a People Problem, Not a Technology Problem
As businesses scale, leaders often underestimate change management.
Josh Santiago (Santiago & Company) explained that execution fails when teams aren’t prepared for new systems, processes, or expectations—even when the strategy is sound.
Key insight: If people don’t believe the plan is achievable, it won’t work.
Sustainable Growth Depends on Leadership Maturity
The panel closed with a simple but critical reminder:
Your leadership team must grow as fast as your business.
That means:
Delegating early
Building leadership pipelines
Valuing truth-seekers over yes-people
Using data to ground decisions
Designing a business that doesn’t rely on the founder for everything
Scaling isn’t about moving faster. It’s about building the structure, leadership capacity, and clarity to grow without breaking what already works.
If scaling your business is stretching your time and focus, an Ultimate Executive Assistant from Workergenix can help you reclaim 15–30 hours a week and lead with clarity.
Book a discovery call to see how the right executive support creates growth without chaos.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript:
Harley Green: All right, welcome everyone to Executive Edge Live. I’m Harley Green, founder and CEO of Workergenix. Now at Workergenix, we help high-performing leaders reclaim time and focus by pairing them with Ultimate Executive Assistants who reduce operational drag and increase leadership bandwidth. These sessions are one way that we support the broader business community with real conversations about what actually works at scale.
Today’s conversation is going to be focused on vision and planning for scalable growth. Very appropriate here for the new year. A lot of leaders don’t really struggle with vision so much as they struggle with the bandwidth side of things. And when everything runs through you and your calendar is full, even strong plans and vision can stall.
So today we’re unpacking how leaders can set growth targets that are ambitious but executable, plan around real capacity, not just hope, and reduce leadership drag that quietly eats 15 to 30 hours a week so that you can build planning structures to support execution and not just strategy.
You’ll hear practical insights from real-world experiences and honest trade-offs from the leaders who’ve built growth plans that hold up under pressure, our amazing panelists. And a quick note before we begin, today’s session will also be featured on our podcast, Scale Smart, Grow Fast. So if something resonates with you today, you’ll be able to revisit again in the conversation later, wherever you get your podcasts.
So let’s go ahead and dive right in and get to know our panelists. Justin, let’s start with you. Go ahead and introduce yourself to our audience today.
Justin Janowski: Hey, thanks for having me. I’m Justin Janowski. I run a company called Faith to Influence, and I help Christian coaches and entrepreneurs as my primary target audience with high-integrity sales strategies. I know that many people who are building businesses are trying to figure out the right pricing, the right irresistible offer, and the right sales strategy to grow.
And for my audience specifically, sales is the thing they want to do the least, but they need the most. And so I help people do that really well in a way that feels good for them and their prospects, that has integrity, and makes it easy for the right people to say yes.
Harley Green: Thank you so much, Justin, for joining us. Josh, how about you?
Josh Santiago: Absolutely. Thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to be here. My name is Josh Santiago. I’m one of the managing partners and founder of a firm that I started called Santiago & Company. So we are a management consulting firm that specializes in helping mid-market enterprise companies isolate and identify portfolio value across the entire chain and then really dive into that.
So this is a conversation that’s near and dear to my heart because I spend a lot of time helping organizations, even at the very top, uncover these issues and really dial it back. So it’s nice to get back into the small business side of things and help give back there.
Harley Green: It’s great having you here today, Josh. All right, Philip, how about you? Can you introduce yourself?
Philip Williams: Good morning. Thank you for having me, Harley. I appreciate the invitation. Super cool to be on the panel with all these cool chaps here. I run an advisory firm that handles bookkeeping so that business leaders can get their numbers on time. Massive frustration for a lot of us.
And then on the backside, we also do exit planning advising, which deals a lot with building value in the business and expanding the valuation on the company before an owner decides to exit.
Harley Green: Thank you so much, Philip. And last but certainly not least, Bryan, go ahead and introduce yourself to the audience.
Bryan Boettger: Thank you. Brian from Estate Four. I’m the principal and lead strategist. I’ve been in the agency and consultant space for like 25 years now and worked across a variety of spots. American Express, Google, YouTube, Toyota, all kinds of things, but also smaller companies as well.
And I focus now predominantly on the construction and industrial space. So that’s kind of where I found my home at this point in time.
Harley Green: As you can see, we’ve got a power-packed panel here today. So let’s just dive right in with the first question here. This is open to everyone. So if you’ve got something you want to share, please just jump right in.
And the first question today we’re going to focus on is scalable growth. When you think about scalable growth, what do you see leaders most often getting wrong in their planning?
Philip Williams: I’ll jump in. The number one thing is they think it’s going to happen faster and less expensively than it really is. Whatever your number is, probably you should add 50 percent on time and money.
Josh Santiago: I think the other thing too that I see is capacity. I think planning around capacity to hit scalability is another one. It’s a huge underinvestment. Everybody thinks they’ve got unlimited bandwidth and we all love the five to nine, but it’s one of those things that you’ve got to balance capacity as well across the organization.
Bryan Boettger: If we’re looking at leaders, and I think a lot of what you’re focusing on is leadership, I think it’s important to identify the difference between leadership and management and what role you’re filling within that. And too often people focus on the what and the how instead of the why and the where.
And as a true leader, if you focus on where we’re going and why we want to get there, and then you either offload or collaborate with your team for the what and how, that’s the only way it’ll work in the long term.
Justin Janowski: For me, I’ll add that sustainability is one of the key components leaders need to think about. How can we grow in a way that’s sustainable, a way that feels good long term, that supports the lifestyle we want, the business we want, the culture and values of the business?
And so it’s about having the right people in place, the right systems and processes so that the scaling isn’t just an exciting moment, but something that’s lasting and done the right way.
Harley Green: I heard you.
Bryan Boettger: Also, the scaling aspect, it’s not like a final destination either. One of the problems is people just look at what’s that end goal instead of looking at what are the milestones to get there.
And people try to do goal setting or don’t even do goal setting at all. It’s crazy how often people don’t set goals. They just say, “We’re going to grow, we’re going to do whatever,” but not only setting an end goal, but what are the stage gates to get there so you can do quality checks as you go.
Harley Green: One of the things that I’ve heard here in this discussion was that sometimes leaders can underestimate the amount of effort or resources that it’ll take. Why do you guys think that is? Especially people who’ve been in business more than a year and understand that things are harder than they often look on the surface. Why do leaders continually fall into that trap, and what tips or strategies would you offer for them to be more realistic?
Justin Janowski: A lot of leaders are visionary types. They see the big goal, the big picture, and where they want to go. They’re great at communicating that, and there’s often a charisma around their ability to sell people on it and get people excited.
But many leaders are missing the integrator, the down-to-earth analytics of what it’s actually going to take to make that vision come alive. And so partnering with team members and trusted advisors, coaches, mentors, and others who can see what actually has to happen to bring the vision to life is really important.
Many visionaries just have the big idea and they start sharing it before the path is clear.
Josh Santiago: I think Justin brings up a great point. It’s the marriage between the visionary and the integrator. If you look at a lot of great companies throughout history, Apple with Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, Microsoft with Bill Gates and Paul Allen, there was always a strong visionary and an equally strong executor.
And I think that becomes such a hard thing to do sometimes when you’re just getting started or even when you’ve been in business for a few years, finding somebody you can tie yourself to who’s not only going to help push the vision forward, but also bring you back to reality.
You’re like, “Yeah, we’re going to grow 40 percent next year,” and it’s like, “Well, we don’t even have the staff to do that. Hold on just a second.” Finding the two is super helpful.
Philip Williams: I’ll just add that as an entrepreneur, the fundamental thing that allows us to do what we do is also an Achilles heel. And that is this: entrepreneurs are like adolescents in their inability to assess risk.
We are willing to leave the house without a bunch of guaranteed green lights to get across town. There are other people that need to know every light is going to be green when they get there. So you need somebody to help compensate for your positive success wiring.
Josh Santiago: Well said.
Philip Williams: As you’re saying, you need somebody to help compensate for your positive success wiring.
Bryan Boettger: I think one way to mitigate against that, and I totally agree one hundred percent, is something I actually did when I started this company from my last one. I did a lot of self-assessment around what my risk level was and how I protect myself from myself.
But in general, looking at the companies we work with, you have to ask whether your success is because your company is reactive to customer needs or proactive to customer needs. If you’re reactive, scalability and growth are going to be harder. If you’re proactive, that usually means you’re more ready.
Another way to look at that is people versus process. Are you successful because of your people solely, or are you successful because you have process? If you actually have that foundational process piece, then that’s something you might be able to grow and sustain.
Philip Williams: And do you have a process for finding people?
Josh Santiago: Yeah.
Bryan Boettger: Yeah.
Harley Green: Absolutely. Brian, back to you. You touched on this a little bit. You’ve spent your career helping organizations simplify their strategies. Where do growth plans usually become too complex to execute? And how can leaders create clarity without oversimplifying?
Bryan Boettger: A great visual that helps a ton is thinking about fidelity levels, like looking at a picture and how pixelated it is. If you look at a billboard up close, it’s totally pixelated, but from far away it has clarity even with low fidelity.
As you get closer, you need higher fidelity. Our phones are high fidelity because they’re right in front of our faces. Strategy should work the same way. Start with low fidelity for three to five years. Personally, I think anything beyond five years is a fool’s quest.
Then bring it in two-thirds for medium fidelity. Then bring it in another third for high fidelity. You increase fidelity as you get closer to execution.
Harley Green: Josh, any input on the fidelity piece of goal strategy?
Josh Santiago: Yeah, I love this because we practice it at the corporate level, and I like bringing it back down. I’ve done a lot of work with nonprofits. McKinsey developed the Three Horizons model years ago.
Horizon One is where you’re at today, the core business sustaining the organization. Horizon Two has commercial viability but isn’t widespread yet. Horizon Three is where visionaries love to play. No EBITDA impact yet, just ideas.
Where people get out of sorts is sequencing. You should spend about seventy percent of your time in Horizon One, high fidelity, what you’re working on today. Thirty percent in Horizon Two. And ten percent in Horizon Three so visionaries don’t feel stifled.
That balance keeps execution moving while allowing innovation.
Harley Green: That’s a great breakdown of time and resource allocation. Justin, you work closely with founders setting ambitious income and impact goals. How do you help leaders stretch without overwhelming capacity or values?
Justin Janowski: We want goals that stretch us but stay in the realm of possibility. Some people advocate setting unachievable goals so you land somewhere good. I prefer something we actually believe we can achieve.
Belief changes behavior. When the leader and team believe the goal is achievable, they act differently. The goal should require a new version of you, but still feel possible.
It’s different for everyone. Sometimes it’s a smell test. Does it feel true? One of my mentors would say, “I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t believe it yet.” Sometimes asking the question multiple times gets to a truer answer.
Philip Williams: Hey Justin, have you ever heard of Edwin Locke and Gary Latham?
Justin Janowski: I haven’t.
Philip Williams: They published a paper in 2002 on self-belief and goal achievement. In corporate settings, you’ve probably heard someone in the back of the room say, “That’ll never happen,” when leadership announces a big goal. That’s lack of belief.
I actually helped put a company on the Inc. 5000 using that theory. Self-belief matters. If the team doesn’t believe they can do it, that’s the first gap.
Josh Santiago: I love asking the question, “What has to be true for us to get here?” It balances vision with execution. If you want forty percent growth, what has to change? More staff, new systems, new processes?
As you hit small milestones, belief accelerates.
Philip Williams: When you give someone a goal they’ve never achieved, and they don’t know anyone who has, you’ve lost most of the battle. There’s a physiological response that says, “I can’t do this.” You have to address that.
Justin Janowski: That’s why breaking goals into the smallest actions matters. Whether the goal is one hundred thousand or ten million, break it into sales, calls, messages.
Often, what it takes is smaller than people think. Many solopreneurs would hit goals just by sending ten messages a day consistently.
Philip Williams: And the complement to that is asking, what three things do you do that shoot yourself in the foot? Write them down and stop doing them.
Sometimes winning is just not losing. People delay calls, delay proposals, and let momentum slip. Stop doing those three things and results improve.
Bryan Boettger: Parallel to that is distraction. The Eisenhower Matrix of urgent versus important is powerful. It helps you decide what to focus on, what to delegate, and what to ignore.
Josh Santiago: Delegation is one of the biggest challenges as businesses grow. Learning to hand things off early accelerates everything.
Philip, on the exit side, when owners delegate well, does exiting become easier?
Philip Williams: Absolutely. If you want a good multiple, you better delegate well and have a team worth delegating to. If you have those things, you might not even want to exit.
Bryan Boettger: That theme of identifying the next generation of leaders keeps coming up. Whether exiting or not, scale requires new leaders.
If you plan to grow fast, start interviewing now. It takes time.
Philip Williams: And investors consistently say business owners struggle to identify and develop good talent. That needs to be top of mind.
Josh Santiago: Yeah, such a good point. I spend a lot of time coaching leaders on building that pipeline. Brian, to your point, building that next generation of leaders is so important. Not only is it expensive to hire people, but it’s even more expensive to rehire. When you bring someone along on the journey, they’re bought into the vision and running at the same pace.
It also gives them a stake in the organization. Retention goes up. Beyond that, building a runway or pipeline of talent is critical because it takes time to develop these skill sets. Leaders need to think ahead. If we’re going to grow from X to Y, what skills will people need to support that?
Many people entering the workforce want to know what the next role looks like and how to get there. Smaller organizations struggle to bridge that gap and lose people because they don’t provide a path forward. If you can show someone how to go from a junior role to the next level with a clear roadmap, they stay and buy into the vision.
Philip Williams: And how many business owners don’t do that in the hiring conversation?
Bryan Boettger: Especially when someone has a growth mindset, entrepreneurs often think, “I figured it out, so they should too.” But there’s that old saying: what if you don’t train them and they stay? Then you have untrained people working for you.
Sometimes training people contributes to the greater good, and hopefully you support them enough that they want to stay.
Josh Santiago: Yeah.
Harley Green: You’ve made some excellent points. Philip, I want to go back to you because your work focuses a lot on momentum and planning with the end in mind. What signals tell you early that someone’s growth plan won’t hold up operationally?
Philip Williams: The first thing I look at is anecdotal. When I do an onsite for the first time, I don’t show up at 9 a.m. I meet them around 5:45 p.m. the night before and tour the office.
I look at how many desks are missing personal effects, pictures of kids, dogs, vacations. Then I look at whether the business owner understands the informal processes and communication flows. If they don’t understand that informal network, that’s a problem.
Then I look at the money. I want to see the budget, the contingency, whether credit lines are maxed out. Something will go wrong, and you’ll need a well to dip into.
Third, do they control their pipeline? If you don’t know how or why the phone rings and you’re trying to scale, that’s another issue. Culture, budget, pipeline. Those are my first three checks.
Harley Green: Those are three critical checklist items. Josh, you’ve led large-scale transformations across industries. Where do leaders most underestimate execution risk, especially with complexity and technology?
Josh Santiago: It’s the change management side. It’s the people side. ERP implementations are a great example. They’re critical, but they fail constantly. Accounting teams have workarounds in Excel they’ve used for years.
You try to digitize everything, nobody knows how it works, and it all breaks. There’s fear of displacement, resistance, and lack of participation. You get months in and realize processes don’t work because no one bought in.
There are usually three groups: people who fear losing their jobs, people who think technology will replace them, and people who want the change but don’t understand it. Without addressing all three, execution fails.
Bryan Boettger: Modernization always requires good data. If data isn’t normalized, execution becomes nearly impossible. You could have great data, but if everything is one-off, it takes years to fix.
This ties back to people versus process and reactive versus proactive businesses. Normalized data allows execution without constant thinking.
Philip Williams: I love what you’re saying, Josh. That’s where owners don’t actually know how things get done. Informal processes change after the owner leaves the room. Then a new system gets dropped in and breaks everything because leadership doesn’t understand reality on the ground.
Entrepreneurs make decisions quickly. A new idea on Friday becomes policy Monday morning. Half the team is terrified.
Josh Santiago: So true.
Bryan Boettger: All of this scales to large corporations too. Whether it’s one person to ten, or a department growing, these concepts repeat at every level.
Josh Santiago: Absolutely.
Harley Green: What strategies should leaders keep in mind when introducing new goals or plans? What should they do before presenting changes to ensure buy-in?
Justin Janowski: One thing that helps tremendously is a quarterly deep dive focused mostly on celebrating what was accomplished. It builds trust. Every quarter, I’m surprised by how much progress we’ve made when we stop and reflect.
When teams feel seen and celebrated, they’re more willing to embrace change and make mistakes in a safe environment.
Bryan Boettger: From a safety standpoint, a freeing question is, “What if everything we’re doing is wrong?” Truly embracing that opens up honesty. It allows people to say the uncomfortable truths because you’re asking them to.
Harley Green: That’s a great point. Opening the floor shows you don’t have all the answers and welcome feedback. I’m listening to a book right now called Thanks for the Feedback, which covers this well.
Let’s move to a trade-off question. What’s one hard decision you’ve made or advised on that protected long-term scalability even though it was uncomfortable?
Justin Janowski: Letting the wrong person go. I tend to hold on too long because I care. But recognizing who we need to be and whether we have the right people in the seats is critical. The sooner you make the decision, the better.
It never feels good, but it’s part of leadership. Ending things honorably matters, but avoiding it causes more damage.
Philip Williams: I’ve had to tell owners not to scale. If you can’t take two weeks off, you’re not ready. You’ll just replicate chaos somewhere else.
Josh Santiago: I’ve had to kill pet projects. Ideas that look good on paper but don’t align with brand or capability. Focus is hard, but necessary.
Bryan Boettger: One hard decision I made was doubling our office space even though we weren’t using it most of the time. It created a home base and culture anchor.
Also, on letting people go, one person often affects five others. Keeping them harms more people than releasing them.
Justin Janowski: That’s great wisdom.
Josh Santiago: I’ve seen that too. Once a toxic high performer leaves, the culture improves instantly.
Harley Green: We have covered some amazing topics and extracted a huge amount of wisdom from you guys today. One final lightning round question, just a couple of sentences. What’s the most important principle leaders should remember when planning to be scalable for growth this year?
Philip Williams: I’ll go. You and your team, your leadership team, better be able to grow and learn as fast as you want your business to grow.
Justin Janowski: Hmm.
Harley Green: Anyone else who wants to jump in, go for it.
Bryan Boettger: I’d say value the truth seekers. The people who challenge you and question you. Get rid of the sycophants and value the truth seekers, because that’s the only way you’re actually going to be able to grow and achieve.
Josh Santiago: I’d say force data into every conversation. Every time you have an idea, try to find the data within the organization or within the market to back it up so you can make a qualitative and quantitative decision.
Justin Janowski: Thanks.
Justin Janowski: For me, I’m thinking about two things. One is building the simplest outcome-focused plan possible. The more complexity, the more things that can go wrong. Some businesses require complexity, but as simple as it can be and as outcome-focused as it can be, the better.
And for me as a sales guy, we have to have the right salespeople and the right sales process in place. Philip talked earlier about making sure the phone is ringing. What’s our process for leads and sales, and who’s going to handle them? That’s critically important to every company.
Harley Green: So thank you again for joining us, guys. If people want to continue the conversation with you or connect with you online, we’d love to give everyone the opportunity to share the best way to connect, starting with you, Josh.
Josh Santiago: Yeah, just visit us at santiagocompany.com. That’s the easiest way to find out what we do and get ahold of us. Or you can find me on LinkedIn at Josh Santiago KC.
Philip Williams: You can find me online at thenumbersadvisors.com. That’s the best place to see how our advisory firm operates. And then on LinkedIn, you can look me up at Your Goals Achieved.
Harley Green: Awesome. Bryan, you.
Bryan Boettger: You can find us at estatefour.com, spelled out. A picture’s worth a thousand words. And feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn as well.
Justin Janowski: Mm-hmm.
Harley Green: And Justin.
Justin Janowski: I’m easy to find online and on social media, but the best way to connect is actually to accept a gift I’d like to give everyone. It’s a free PDF of our 10-step sales process that’s been effective for us and our clients.
You can get that by texting the word SALES to 55444. It’ll give you the free gift, put you on our email list, and myself or someone from my team will text you. If you want to talk with me personally, just reply and say you want to talk to Justin, and we’ll get on a call and get to know each other.
Harley Green: Thank you so much to our panelists today for the clarity and real-world insight you’ve shared with our audience. And thank you to everyone who joined us live.
Remember, scale isn’t just about growing faster. It’s about building the structure and leadership capacity to support that growth without breaking what matters.
We’ll see you all next time on Executive Edge Live and on the Scale Smart, Grow Fast podcast. Have a great rest of your day, everybody. Thank you.
Why You’re Still Stuck in the Day-to-Day (And How to Break Free)
If you’re a founder or business leader still caught in the weeds—managing calendars, answering emails, and putting out fires—you’re not alone. But staying stuck in the day-to-day is not the cost of building a successful company.
In a recent episode of Scale Smart, Grow Fast, host Harley Green sat down with Ken Wimberly, founder of Laundry Luv and a serial entrepreneur with over two decades of experience. Ken has mastered the art of scaling with systems, service, and soul—without burning out.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Here’s what you’ll learn from his journey—and how you can apply it today.
🚧 The Trap: Doing Everything Yourself
Ken’s early entrepreneurial days were all hustle, no structure. Like many founders, he thought doing it all was the only way to succeed.
The breakthrough came when he realized: you can’t scale if you’re the bottleneck.
🧰 The Tools That Changed Everything
To escape the grind, Ken implemented the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS)—a game-changing framework that helped him align his team, define roles, and lead with clarity.
He also built a powerhouse team of virtual executive assistants. One VA has been with him for over 12 years, helping run four different companies.
“If you don’t have an assistant, you are the assistant.” – Ken Wimberly
💡 Daily Huddles = Daily Clarity
Ken starts each day with a 15-minute huddle to align priorities and check in personally with his team. These meetings, inspired by Dan Martell’s Buy Back Your Time, are followed by focused 1-on-1s.
Short. Consistent. Game-changing.
🕒 Calendar Blocking = Time Ownership
Ken “weaponizes” his calendar using color-coded time blocks for deep work, family, strategy, and more. His VAs overlay this framework to protect his focus and maximize every hour.
📈 KPIs That Reflect Purpose
At Laundry Luv, impact is more than a buzzword—it’s a business metric. His team tracks:
📚 Books given to kids
❤️ Lives positively touched
🛠️ Community engagement initiatives
Because when your business is built to serve, the profits follow naturally.
Ready to stop drowning in daily tasks and start leading with focus?
💼 Book a discovery call with Workergenix and find your Ultimate Executive Assistant today.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript
Harley Green: Hey everybody. Welcome back to Scale Smart, Grow Fast. Today we’re going to talk about what if scaling a business didn’t mean burning out or compromising your values? Today’s guest, Ken Wimberly, is proof that growth doesn’t have to come at the cost of your soul. He’s the founder of Laundry Luv, a modern community-centered laundromat brand, and a serial entrepreneur who spent 20 years building scalable businesses rooted in legacy, leadership, and purpose. In this episode, you’ll learn how to systemize for freedom, lead with clarity, and grow a business that makes you proud. Ken, welcome to the podcast. Maybe you can tell us a little bit more about your background as an entrepreneur.
Ken Wimberly: Hey Harley, thanks for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this. Entrepreneurially, it’s almost all I’ve ever done. I spent a short stint in the Navy in the middle of college. When I graduated, I had my first and only two jobs. One was in the insurance and investment business. From there, I launched a pizza startup. It wasn’t a full franchise, more like a quasi-licensed brand. It failed, oddly, because of real estate issues, which is ironic since I spent the next 20 years in real estate.
After that failure, I worked briefly for about a year as a GM at a restaurant. Then it was into the rest of my entrepreneurial career, which for decades was in the commercial real estate business. I started as a broker in land brokerage, then moved into investment sales. Through that, I got affiliated with the Keller Williams Network, ended up becoming a Keller Williams franchise owner, and started buying real estate. That led to buying a shopping center. We were looking for tenants and realized it would be ideal for a laundromat. We tried to find a laundromat operator and couldn’t, so my partners and I decided to become the operator ourselves. That was the beginning of Laundry Luv.
We wanted to do something different. Laundromats were often gross, dingy, unstaffed, not places for families. We wanted to be the opposite. We aimed to be the family-friendly laundromat—the Chick-fil-A of laundromats. So we created dedicated children’s play spaces in every location. We bring in books, promote childhood literacy, read to kids, and give away books. We do something for our communities every single month. It’s been a blessing—a way to make an impact, have purpose, and build a thriving business.
Harley Green: That’s an amazing story. I love how it sounds like you learned from some of the challenges or failures that you faced early on, pivoted, took that knowledge, and then made it your special skill or unique advantage. I’d love to hear, what are some of the turning points you experienced with your approach to scaling business?
Ken Wimberly: One of the most important is the team. Having the right people in the right seats doing the right things is imperative. We’ve got both a physical and virtual team. Virtually, we have team members from around the world. Physically, I’m in Fort Worth, Texas. My partner’s in Austin. We have team members and stores in multiple cities. COVID helped everyone embrace remote work and how to build remote teams. That’s been a game changer.
The other big thing is implementing EOS—the Entrepreneurial Operating System. Not just dabbling, but full-on implementation. We hired an EOS implementer who comes in quarterly. We use all the tools properly. It has streamlined our business, helped define the right seats, identify the right people, and assess whether they want the job, can do the job. It’s been a huge win.
Harley Green: I love that you brought that up because one of the questions I was going to ask was what systems you use for your hybrid teams. You’ve got people all over the world and you answered it with EOS. That’s something we’ve also implemented. I also love how when we were coordinating this podcast, you immediately brought in one of your executive assistants. I’d love it if you could share your thoughts on leveraging executive assistants for founders and business leaders. A lot of people think it’s easier to do it themselves or don’t want to give up access to their inbox. What are your thoughts?
Ken Wimberly: The first hire we need to make is the executive assistant. If you don’t have an assistant, you are the assistant. Managing your inbox alone is hours of time. My calendar too. That’s been harder for me to give away, but now during my morning huddle with my EA, I just say, “Davidson, add this, change this, move this meeting.” It saves so much time.
He coordinates everything. Instead of emailing back and forth to change a meeting, Davidson handles it. That alone saves hours. But there’s more—Davidson is a master at graphic design. That’s his core skill set. He handles my presentations, branding materials, and more. Right now, he’s building a brand book for Laundry Luv. He’s so good. Sure, I could do it, but it would take forever and wouldn’t be nearly as good. My time is better spent on deep thinking and vision for the company.
He also manages my social media. I was telling him yesterday—it’s like listening to my own voice when he posts. He watches my podcasts, listens to my language, and uses AI tools for clips. He’s become that good. Then there’s Melissa, my first VA hire 12 years ago. She’s now my wife’s primary EA. She’s been with us through four companies. Melissa and Davidson are like family to me. Every morning, we do a huddle: me, my wife, and our two VAs. We each share something we’re grateful for, then the three main priorities for the day, and if we need help. Then we go into our 1:1s—me with Davidson, my wife with Melissa.
We use Dan Martell’s “Buy Back Your Time” format. The 30-minute morning structure gets us aligned and moving fast. It’s been crucial. I can’t say enough about the importance of bringing on a VA or EA.
Harley Green: I love that you brought up morning huddles and check-ins. Many people struggle with VAs because they don’t do regular check-ins. They treat them like a black box. I’m curious—what strategies or mindset shifts helped you build trust with your team and allow them to take ownership?
Ken Wimberly: It’s an evolution. Like with any hire, they come in not knowing anything. They need to be trained. When I first hired Melissa, I wasn’t great at training her. But once I had an in-house admin take over her training, it got way better. When Davidson came on, Melissa trained him. Every team member needs proper training and oversight. The daily huddles are critical. I didn’t use to do them, but I’ve learned to implement them. I also R&D a lot—rip off and duplicate. If I see a model working, I adopt it.
My partner Skyler had another great system—Friday one-on-ones with each team member. It’s a check-in: how are they doing personally, with family, health, etc. If something’s wrong, that’s all we focus on—how to help. If things are good, we move on to weekly goals, what got done, communication, and support needs. It’s not robotic—I know the questions, and we have a natural conversation. Sometimes I lead, sometimes my wife. It builds a deeper relationship beyond just business.
Harley Green: I’m glad you brought up checking in with employees on a personal level because so many times that side isn’t talked about. There’s often no natural opportunity to bring it up in traditional business meetings, and that can lead to negative performance, burnout, or turnover. As business owners, there are often simple solutions—time off, a small adjustment, support—that can make a huge difference. We’ve seen major improvement in our business by doing the same thing.
Speaking of balance and helping people, you’ve got a lot going on. In addition to Laundry Luv, you’re still active as a commercial real estate investor. How do you balance your time between your different endeavors?
Ken Wimberly: The first thing I do is weaponize my calendar. Everything goes on it. If someone looked at my calendar, it might overwhelm them, but for me it creates clarity. I know exactly what I’m supposed to be doing at any given time. Most of my time is spent on Laundry Luv. We’re growing, franchising, building stores, and supporting franchisees, so it requires a lot of focus.
I still do real estate investments with partners, but I don’t do brokerage anymore. I do maintain referral relationships because people still see me as the real estate guy. Again, it all goes on the calendar. It’s color-coded—Laundry Luv, real estate, personal, family. Date nights with my wife are on there. My kids’ sports events are on there. Everything is intentional.
Davidson helps manage my calendar. He knows what’s coming in and how to prioritize it. I also mapped out what I call my ideal calendar. I took this from Dan Martell. I mapped out everything—from my early morning personal routine, workouts, family time, deep work blocks, and flex time.
Davidson has this overlay of my ideal calendar, so he knows not to schedule meetings during deep work time. That alone took a few hours to build, but once it was done, everything started flowing better.
Harley Green: I love that. We do something similar with time blocking. How often do you revisit that ideal calendar? Do your priorities shift enough that you need to adjust it, or does it give you enough flexibility?
Ken Wimberly: There’s enough flexibility built in. The reality of my calendar doesn’t always match the ideal perfectly. Some days require full-day commitments, travel, or discovery days. But the ideal calendar serves as a guide. When I’m traveling or in all-day meetings, that takes priority. Having a framework helps me return to balance faster.
Harley Green: You mentioned EOS earlier, so I’m sure you’re big on KPIs. What are some of your favorite metrics that tell you when systems are working—or when something’s off?
Ken Wimberly: EOS has been incredible for that. As a team, we defined the KPIs that truly matter. We revisit them annually to make sure they’re still relevant. For my role, it’s about pipeline—how many people are active and how many are moving toward meaningful engagement.
Because we’re community-focused, we also track impact. We track how many books each store gives away to children every week. We track how many lives we’ve positively touched. That wasn’t always on the scorecard, but we realized if it’s important, we should measure it. Our store managers report these numbers weekly, and it’s powerful.
Harley Green: I’d love for you to share one of those stories—how you’ve impacted lives in the community and what effect that’s had on the business.
Ken Wimberly: One example is our Thanksgiving dinner giveaway. We give $50 grocery gift cards so families can have a Thanksgiving meal. We hear stories every year from people who say they wouldn’t have had Thanksgiving dinner without it.
Every August, we do back-to-school backpack giveaways. With our vendors’ support, we provide hundreds of backpacks filled with supplies. Families line up outside the store. Kids are excited, parents are relieved. It’s incredibly meaningful.
Another story that always moves me involves Clay, our first store manager and now Director of Facilities. We call him the Minister of Love. One day, he noticed a customer who was visibly upset. The man was being evicted and his truck was broken down. Clay didn’t hesitate. He spent hours helping him move his belongings so they wouldn’t be lost. Clay is in his 60s, moving furniture without question. Stories like that happen every week. Sometimes it’s just showing up, seeing people, and doing something small that makes a big difference.
Harley Green: That’s incredibly inspiring. For those listening who might be interested in Laundry Luv, what makes an ideal franchisee or operator?
Ken Wimberly: We look for people who want to work with a team and appreciate structure and systems. You don’t have to do it alone, but you do need to be aligned with leadership and service. Some business or leadership experience helps—marketing, accounting, operations. Veterans are a great fit for us. My partner and I are veterans, and we support them heavily.
This is a profitable business, but profit isn’t our first driver. We believe in doing good by doing good. The more good we do, the more good comes back.
Harley Green: We feel the same way. As we wrap up, what’s one shift business leaders can make this week to free up their time and feel more in control?
Ken Wimberly: Get comfortable with delegation. Ask your team to bring three potential solutions when they bring you a problem. That teaches them to think critically and solve problems on their own. Over time, you stop being the bottleneck, and the business starts running smoothly.
Harley Green: Ken, where can listeners connect with you and learn more about Laundry Luv?
Ken Wimberly: You can visit LaundryLuv.com—L-U-V—to learn about the business and franchise opportunities. For more about me, go to KenWimberly.com. I share a lot of free resources there—systems, documents, and tools that help streamline business and life.
Harley Green: To our listeners, if you got value today, hit follow and subscribe, leave a rating, and share this episode with someone who needs it. Thanks for tuning in to Scale Smart, Grow Fast. Until next time, keep scaling smart.
The New Era of B2B Marketing: Why It’s About to Get Weird (In the Best Way Possible)
Marketing isn’t what it used to be—and that’s exactly why it’s working better for those willing to adapt. In the latest episode of the Scale Smart, Grow Fast podcast, Harley Green sat down with Brad Schlachter, Fractional CMO at The Growth Syndicate, to talk about what B2B companies must do to build predictable, scalable, and sustainable growth.
If you’re still thinking growth is all about performance ads and lead volume, you’re already behind.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
🎯 Key Takeaways from Brad Schlachter:
1. Retention > Acquisition
Acquiring leads is expensive. But retaining existing customers? That’s where the real ROI lies. Brad emphasizes that reducing churn—especially for SaaS and subscription-based businesses—should be a core growth lever, not an afterthought.
2. Align Brand and Performance
Performance marketing gets clicks. But if your messaging doesn’t align with your brand’s promise, your conversions (and customer trust) will tank. One of Brad’s best examples? A Hallmark ad featuring Betty White. It wasn’t the flashiest creative—but it resonated and converted because it fit the brand perfectly.
3. Find Your “Betty White”
Every brand has that one creative, message, or moment that just clicks with their ideal customer. The key is testing, analyzing beyond vanity metrics, and staying consistent with your brand voice.
4. Do Fewer Things, Better
Too many teams are spread thin across a dozen disconnected campaigns. Brad suggests focusing on 2–3 strategic “marketing pillars” a year—aligning product launches, content drops, PR, and offers into unified, cross-functional campaigns.
5. AI Is a Co-Pilot, Not a Replacement
AI tools (like ChatGPT and marketing agents) are changing how we work—but strategy still needs a human mind. Brad recommends using AI for insights, content drafts, and automation—but keeping high-level customer and growth strategy human-led.
📈 Ready to Rethink Your Growth Strategy?
B2B marketing is evolving fast—and getting a little weird (in the best way). The brands winning today are those who lead with customer understanding, invest in retention, and align every touchpoint with a consistent brand message.
“If you’re only focused on acquisition, you’re leaving serious growth on the table.” — Brad Schlachter
Ready to implement smarter marketing strategies without burning out your team?
Book a discovery call with Workergenix and learn how an Ultimate Executive Assistant can help you execute, optimize, and scale faster.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript:
Harley Green:
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. Now growth doesn’t happen by accident. It’s engineered through strategy, execution and data. In this episode, Brad Schlachter, Fractional CMO with the Growth Syndicate and full funnel growth strategist shares how B2B and tech companies can align acquisition, analytics and retention to achieve measurable, sustainable results. With experience scaling global brands like Microsoft, Intel and Qualcomm, as well as high growth startups, Brad reveals how to build go-to-market systems that fuel predictable growth. Brad, welcome to the podcast. How are you today?
Brad Schlachter:
Good, thanks for having me.
Harley Green:
Brad, maybe you can share a little bit more about your background, what brought you to helping business leaders achieve great success with their marketing now.
Brad Schlachter:
Yeah, you know, it really starts with always being a marketer started with me being very curious about behavior. I was a psych major in college, and marketing is really about consumer behavior. And so it was always an area of interest for me. Also, at the end of the day, marketing is really about solving problems. How do you grow this brand? How do you pivot something when it clearly needs a change in direction? Solving problems and understanding human behavior has led me to have a career in marketing. As you said, I’ve worked for some bigger companies, mostly earlier in my career. More recently, I’ve worked for more small and medium-sized businesses as a fractional CMO.
Harley Green:
I love what you said about the psychology part. We recently saw this in our own business with our recruiting. We deployed a chatbot to help with the first stage of interviews and we saw the submission process and rate drop. We brought back the old form but simplified it and then just gave an automatic email saying, “Please apply here. We like your resume.” And the rates jumped up again. So I’m sure you’ve seen some similar maybe less than intuitive results with marketing that you could share with us, that give people an example of what that means about human psychology and marketing.
Brad Schlachter:
Yeah, it’s definitely very true. It’s not just what you say, but it’s how you make your customers feel. That’s the brand side of marketing. It’s not just about the rational benefits. Does the brand resonate with someone on an emotional level? That whole psychology aspect is really important and sometimes people don’t pay enough attention to that.
Harley Green:
Now, a lot of people think that marketing success is really about just generating more leads, having a bigger ad budget. How do you define sustainable growth from a marketing perspective?
Brad Schlachter:
Marketing is always different. Every company, the first thing I always try to understand when I start as a fractional CMO is getting alignment on what the business goals are. What does success equal? Because what’s success for one company may be different than for another, depending on the business model, what stage the company is in. Defining success is the first important thing. Then building a marketing plan around: this is where we are now, this is where we want to be, and this is how we’re going to get there. Ultimately, it’s also about having a sustainable model so that you know at the end of the day, you can build something replicable. If you’re going to spend $1, you’re going to get back $2 or $3 of revenue. Building that model that’s consistent.
Harley Green:
When you’re talking to these companies and helping them build out these growth strategies, what are some of the most common gaps that you tend to find, whether it’s in the strategy itself or maybe in the mindset of the leadership team?
Brad Schlachter:
One gap is performance marketing and brand. A lot of startups are very focused on leads, and rightly so. But they sometimes put too much emphasis on acquiring leads and the performance marketing aspect, and they don’t take the time and energy to make sure there’s a true product-market fit. Does the product or service resonate with the target audience or their ideal customer profile? Understanding what’s different and better or special about their product or service. These are short-term, but if you have performance marketing and brand alignment, your customer acquisition cost is going to go down, retention is going to go up, and you’re setting yourself up for long-term success.
Harley Green:
You mentioned connecting customer acquisition with analytics and increasing retention. Why is having that alignment so critical to long-term success?
Brad Schlachter:
Another common thing I see is companies are very focused on leads and performance marketing. Yes, that’s a big aspect of what marketing needs to do. But they don’t spend as much time or energy on the retention aspect. On average, it costs five or six times more to acquire a new customer than to keep an existing one. Especially for SaaS services or subscription-based services, reducing churn or increasing retention is really critical in driving long-term growth and doing it profitably. If you’re driving acquisition and getting leads, but you have a high churn rate, then you have a very leaky funnel, and it’s not sustainable. A common mistake for many companies I’ve worked with is not putting equal attention on retention versus acquisition. Retention is about understanding your customer, keeping them engaged, making sure there’s strong product-market fit, solving problems, and keeping them happy.
Harley Green:
It sounds like there’s a lot of overlap in the considerations that go into outreach from both acquisition and retention. Are there any other tips, strategies, or tools that you recommend or enjoy working with for helping on the retention side?
Brad Schlachter:
It’s really about understanding your customer and having that customer-first mentality. If you have a subscription service or really any service, you need to be doing market research. Talk to your customers. If someone cancels, have an exit survey. Understand why people are signing up and, just as importantly, why they’re leaving. There’s active churn, where people cancel and give a reason—maybe your product doesn’t meet their needs. But there’s also passive churn—people fall off because their credit card was declined or some payment issue. There are things you can do to mitigate that. Have a comprehensive plan where acquiring a customer is just the start. Then it’s about keeping them engaged. If they drop off, understand why and how to potentially get them back.
Harley Green:
Those are awesome ideas. One thing we’ve noticed from the Workergenics side—many of our clients employ executive assistants through our service to be that client care point of contact. They can lead those initiatives because often people don’t think of them as revenue-generating activities. It’s a great opportunity to bring in an affordable executive assistant to lower turnover so your marketing dollars have a higher ROI. I have another question. You’ve worked with major brands and led growth initiatives that achieved major turnarounds and exits. What’s one campaign or pivot that really changed the trajectory of a business you worked with?
Brad Schlachter:
I think it’s partly a mindset. When I was at Hallmark, we had a partnership with Roku. I helped launch Hallmark Streaming Service, now called Hallmark Plus. In the early days, we hadn’t found our best platforms. Roku turned out to be the first where we saw a lot of success. It was easier to use, the audience was older and more female, which aligned with Hallmark’s demographics. Roku’s demographics matched well. We ran an ad for a Hallmark Hall of Fame movie with Betty White. She touched all demographics—young and old loved her. She was our magic creative. Everyone needs to find their Betty White—the content and image that resonates and appeals across quadrants. It helped Roku drive early success for Hallmark Streaming. But also, it’s important for marketing teams to focus on doing two or three big things instead of 100 disconnected ones. For example, do a big push around a Betty White movie launch, a product update, a trade show, or a holiday. Pull multiple levers at once—you get more bang for your buck than doing 100 small things.
Harley Green:
What advice would you give to someone who’s doing all these marketing initiatives but everything feels scattered? How do you guide them to focus on the most impactful activities?
Brad Schlachter:
It starts with realizing that marketing can’t be done in a silo. You have to align with product, content, dev teams. I call them marketing pillars—the two or three big things you’re going to do throughout the year. Sit down cross-functionally and plan: is there a product update, a new UX, new content drop, a trade show, a seasonal event like Mother’s Day? Then, align the marketing campaign around those events. Tie it all together with PR, product updates, offers. Work cross-functionally to pull those levers together.
Harley Green:
Going back to the Betty White example, I’m sure there was a lot of studying and analysis. For business owners who won’t bring in famous actors, what are some strategies they can use to find their “Betty White” in relation to their ideal clients?
Brad Schlachter:
Betty White worked because her ads had a solid click-through rate and represented the Hallmark brand. Other ads had higher click-throughs, more provocative imagery, but lower conversions. Betty White personified the brand, which led to better conversions. When someone clicked on her ad and went to Hallmark’s service, it made sense—there was alignment. It’s not just attention, but delivering on the brand promise. It starts with understanding your customer and testing a lot. Before the Betty White ad, we had many creatives running. Some had higher click-throughs but lower conversions. Finding the right mix takes time.
Harley Green:
You bring up a good point about data. There’s so much marketing data. If someone only looks at click-through rate, they might double down on the wrong ads. How do you help people focus on the most important metrics?
Brad Schlachter:
Click-through rate matters—you can’t scale without standing out. But don’t let vanity metrics drive strategy. A high click-through with a low conversion rate is a waste. You need to look at the whole lifecycle. At Hallmark, it was a subscription service with a free trial. So we looked at click-through rate, then free trial sign-ups, and then conversion to paid customer. Follow the journey to see if the ad really worked. Optimize for metrics aligned with revenue and growth, not just top of funnel.
Harley Green:
One topic I always like to hit on is AI and automation. How do you see these tools reshaping how teams execute and measure growth?
Brad Schlachter:
It’s changing every day. Everyone’s using AI—it saves time and energy. AI is great for analyzing data, helping with content, but you still need a human to drive overall strategy and understand the customer. AI is a co-pilot. It keeps getting better, but right now it’s a tool. We’re also seeing AI agents being set up to automate tasks, especially those that are repetitive or data-heavy. Marketers have used AI for years—machine learning in paid media is AI. Now, all tools have AI assistants to help with processes.
Harley Green:
For leaders listening who want to take action this quarter to have more predictable growth, what’s one thing they can do to turn things around?
Brad Schlachter:
It’s about going back to the basics. Some marketers use the same playbook over and over without focusing on the customer. Know your customer, understand their pain points and journey. Where are people dropping off? Why? Don’t just focus on acquisition. Have a holistic view. Focus on retention. Make sure your brand aligns with your performance marketing. Pay attention to engagement. And lastly, do two or three big things instead of 100 small things. Follow that basic template and you’ll position yourself for sustainable growth.
Harley Green:
Absolutely. Understanding your customer and having real clear focus is definitely great advice for everyone listening. Brad, for those who want to learn more and connect with you, what’s the best way?
Brad Schlachter:
I’m on LinkedIn—Brad Schlachter—and I’m with The Growth Syndicate. Feel free to connect.
Harley Green:
Awesome, thank you so much, Brad. For those of you watching, if you got value today, hit the follow or subscribe button and leave a like. Every rating helps us reach more business leaders who want to grow the smart way. And maybe you know a business owner or colleague who could use this—share the episode with them. It could be exactly what they need. Thanks for tuning in. We’ll see you on the next one.
Your Team Is Broken Without This One Leadership System
Most leadership breakdowns don’t stem from strategy, skill, or software—they happen because of one missing element: a system for human connection.
In the latest episode of Scale Smart, Grow Fast, executive coach Nir Megnazi, former engineering leader at Intel and founder of Nir Megnazi Coaching, reveals the overlooked framework that drives real ROI, retention, and trust within high-performing teams.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
🧠 Why Smart Teams Still Struggle
Many leaders assume that hiring smart people and using great tools guarantees results. But as Nir explains, high-performing teams thrive not just on intelligence or efficiency—but on trust, presence, and communication.
Without this human system:
Projects stall from hidden conflict.
Leaders get surface-level compliance, not commitment.
Talented team members disengage quietly.
🛠️ The One System That Changes Everything
This system isn’t complicated—but it requires intention. Nir outlines three key pillars:
Empathy & Trust Trust isn’t built—it’s earned. And it starts by understanding what trust looks like to each person on your team. Leaders need to ask: “What do you need from me to trust me?”
Curiosity Over Control Great leaders stop trying to “solve” people and instead start asking better questions. Curiosity invites clarity, connection, and buy-in.
Leadership Presence A 30-second mindset reset before each meeting—choosing to be present and to listen—can transform how your team perceives your leadership.
“If you want to influence, you must first be open to be influenced.” – Nir Megnazi
🚨 Red Flags You Might Be Missing
If your team:
Agrees in meetings but acts differently afterward
Delivers inconsistent performance
Pushes back on every new direction
…it’s likely a trust issue, not a competence one. And trust is a leadership responsibility.
💬 Practical Takeaways You Can Apply This Week
Pause before meetings. Set an intention to be curious and present.
Ask your team: “What would make this a great collaboration for you?”
Lead tough conversations by stating your intent clearly—before giving feedback.
These small shifts lead to massive returns—Nir has helped leaders drive 76% reported improvement in leadership behaviors and generate millions in ROI per leader.
Ready to build a team that runs on trust, not tension?
Book a discovery call with Workergenix to find your Ultimate Executive Assistant—the right-hand partner who helps you lead with clarity, connection, and calm.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript:
Harley Green: Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Scale Smart, Grow Fast podcast. Now, strategy alone won’t take your team to the top. Human connection will. In this episode, Nir Megnazi, executive coach and leadership expert, explains how emotions and relationships are the real pillars of leadership success. With measurable results, including 76% employee-reported improvement in leadership behaviors and millions in ROI per leader. Nir is going to show how to turn empathy, trust, and presence into your most valuable leadership tools.
Nir, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Nir Megnazi: Thank you. I’m doing fabulous. Thank you for having me on your show.
Harley Green: Our pleasure. Maybe you could share a little bit more of your background. What brought you to doing what you’re doing today?
Nir Megnazi: So, originally, my core education is engineering. I’m a computer engineer and I worked for Intel for 23 years. Most of my career, I’ve been an engineer, an engineering manager. At one point during my career, I just got tired of focusing on improving technology. Let’s get more speed. Let’s get more performance out of it. The innovation was great, and don’t get me wrong, I love technology. I’m a geek. Every new piece of technology that comes out, I’m like, wow, this is so cool. I want to get my hands on it. But at one point, the technology that really got me interested was people—the technology of human beings.
As a leader, this challenge of how do I get more with the team that I have? How do we over-deliver on what we promised and truly make our clients, whether they’re internal or external, much more successful? I got more intrigued by that than by increasing the performance of one part. So I started to take these small courses that were offered at Intel for coaching. The first time I met coaching, I was really intrigued. What is this? This is different than the regular conversations that we’re having day-to-day at work. It feels different. It goes more to the root, into the bottom of things, to the source of why we have challenges. And they focus on the human challenge and the human aspect of the challenges that we’re facing.
That opened me to a completely different and new world of, wow, many of the challenges that we have are not technical. They’re human connection challenges. If we can tap into that and go to the bottom of what makes this a problem for us as leaders or as employees, there’s much more potential there. That took me on a parallel path of leadership coaching. I went and studied coaching. What I observed is, after graduating from coaching school, I became a much more efficient leader and manager for my teams.
My team started to outperform very quickly. Our internal clients were raving about the performance of my team. Let me get this straight. Although I’m an engineer, I was almost always the least smartest person in the room when my team was there. I had the privilege of managing great people—super smart, much smarter than me. The results that we received because of that were amazing. My managers would remove me from one team to another, even if I didn’t know anything about what that team does and I couldn’t even help them on the technical path. But I knew how to manage my clients really well. I knew how to have great conversations with the teams that I was working with. So I could sit with them and learn really quickly what success looks like for them and what the challenges are that they’re facing, and then navigate and direct my team through a strategy that would help our team serve that team very well. The outcome was raving results.
Harley Green: That’s really powerful. I can relate to that. My background is also in computer engineering, and I’ve had similar experiences where you might have the brightest technical person, but if they are in charge of working with the customer and they don’t have that human emotion and human touch to communicate well, the project’s not going to do well. And I’m sure you experienced that too and saw those moments.
Nir Megnazi: Many times. Sometimes I would go into a room and as an observer from the side, I would see two people just shout at one another. They were shouting and shouting, and as an observer, you’d notice that they’re not talking about the same thing. Each person has their own needs and they’re shouting their needs, trying to get them met, but the other person doesn’t listen. So they can’t get the other person’s needs met. That’s how conflict is created. It’s unmet needs that collide in the same moment.
Because I’m a coach, I’m really known to sit on the sidelines for a while. Then at one point, I just say, hey, time out, everyone. Here’s what I’ve heard. Group A, what I heard is that you need A, B, and C. Is that correct? Yes. Okay, hold on. Group B, what I heard you need is D, E, and F. Is that correct? Yes. So you see, you’re talking about two different things. Now Group A, can you satisfy the needs of Group B? Yes. Great. Conflict resolved.
Especially in engineering, people are taught from a very young age—school, what do we do? We solve problems. That takes us away from what I call possibility conversations. To stop for a second, listen to the other person, and get to the root of what they’re asking, what they need, and have a deep conversation. Instead, we get too emotional or hijacked by our own emotions. Then the conversation goes sideways and we waste time, resources, follow-up meetings, escalations.
Now the VPs are involved and they need to call one another to understand what happened. Why is this big conflict and drama? So we see so much drama because we think we’re talking about the details of whatever we’re trying to develop, but really it’s a conflict of needs and lack of better communication.
Harley Green: Now, for people that don’t have the blessing of having you in the room as an independent coach helping facilitate their conversation, what are some indicators they can keep an eye out for or strategies or mindsets that they might keep in mind to really be able to have those possibility conversations and de-escalate these situations to have the ideal outcome?
Nir Megnazi: The first mindset shift that I would offer is: how do you apply curiosity in your day-to-day? Here’s the atmosphere that I’m used to, and I see this with my clients, with other companies. Everyone is always stressed. Everyone is always late—to the next milestone, to the next release, to the next thing they need to achieve. When you’re stressed, you just want to get your needs met. So the level of curiosity you have is very low. You cannot have a conversation with someone else if you’re not curious. If you’re just there to bulldoze your needs onto others, you might get your needs met, but the entire project could fail.
So leaders need curiosity. To apply curiosity, they need to learn how to listen well. We hear a lot of people talking, but we’re not actually listening—to what they say, what they don’t say, to their energy. And we’re missing so much information that’s right there in the conversation.
So the mindset shift is curiosity. Leaders can do that by setting their intention before going into a conversation. Ask yourself, “My goal in the first 10 minutes is to understand the perspective of the other party.” That is applied curiosity, and it requires intention.
Second, I encourage every leader to become a master of human communication and connection. Why? Because the higher we climb the ladder of leadership, the less we are involved in the actual work. The work of leadership is done through conversations. At one point, it’s 100% conversations. So if the leader’s number one skill is to have conversations, how can you afford not being a master of human connection and communication?
Harley Green: That’s powerful. Now, one thing you’ve also talked about is the ROI that people can get from mastering these skills, mastering communication. What are some of the shifts in behavior that have the biggest impact on team performance that you’ve seen?
Nir Megnazi: That’s a great question, and it’s different from leader to leader because every leader has their own superpowers and areas for improvement. But overall, the ideal state is a leader who sets high-quality goals that align with success for them, the team, and the organization. The team needs to clearly understand what success looks like, their role in achieving it, and how they must cooperate with others.
It also taps into their uniqueness as a team and as individuals. When people know their unique value and how it contributes to the outcome, they feel needed, appreciated, and motivated. That’s what people want: to be acknowledged, to feel fulfilled.
Creating a cohesive, synergistic team is like a sports team. You don’t need all superstars; you need a team that works together efficiently and elevates each other’s game. That cohesion often lies beneath the surface—beyond goals, tasks, and milestones. It lives in our humanity: our emotions, creativity, and direction. Leaders who don’t address this miss a huge part of the potential they can unlock.
Let’s talk about two major emotions: trust and motivation. When I coach leaders and start talking about emotions—especially engineers—they ask why we need to talk about emotions. Well, is trust important to your work? Yes? What happens when there’s no trust? Long conversations, wasted time, more meetings. So yes, trust is a feeling, and it’s critical to business success.
Harley Green: That’s powerful. Now, one thing you’ve also talked about is the ROI that people can get from mastering these skills, mastering communication. What are some of the shifts in behavior that have the biggest impact on team performance that you’ve seen?
Nir Megnazi: That’s a great question, and it’s different from leader to leader because every leader has their own superpowers and areas for improvement. But overall, the ideal state is a leader who sets high-quality goals that align with success for them, the team, and the organization. The team needs to clearly understand what success looks like, their role in achieving it, and how they must cooperate with others.
It also taps into their uniqueness as a team and as individuals. When people know their unique value and how it contributes to the outcome, they feel needed, appreciated, and motivated. That’s what people want: to be acknowledged, to feel fulfilled.
Creating a cohesive, synergistic team is like a sports team. You don’t need all superstars; you need a team that works together efficiently and elevates each other’s game. That cohesion often lies beneath the surface—beyond goals, tasks, and milestones. It lives in our humanity: our emotions, creativity, and direction. Leaders who don’t address this miss a huge part of the potential they can unlock.
Let’s talk about two major emotions: trust and motivation. When I coach leaders and start talking about emotions—especially engineers—they ask why we need to talk about emotions. Well, is trust important to your work? Yes? What happens when there’s no trust? Long conversations, wasted time, more meetings. So yes, trust is a feeling, and it’s critical to business success.
The feeling of trust is critical for eliminating waste and achieving execution velocity. Same with motivation. Motivation is an emotion. We feel motivated, and it’s very personal to each person.
Harley Green: I got a question real quick on the trust. Especially in technical fields—or honestly, any business leader coming into this—what are some strategies or advice you can share with them to help build that trust without it feeling forced? Everyone’s been on the team-building events with the trust falls. What’s your advice to build genuine, deep connection and trust?
Nir Megnazi: One of the key moments when I dug into trust—and trust, by the way, is the most researched factor in human emotions in literature. There are so many studies about it because it’s elusive. I would start by saying that trust is earned. You don’t build trust; you earn it. I first heard that in a podcast with Esther Perel and Adam Grant. That idea really shifted my perspective.
There is a choice, whether conscious or unconscious, by one person to trust someone else—to some extent and in some domain. So, how do I become trustworthy? It depends on the other party. What behaviors are they expecting to see that allow them to assess whether I’m trustworthy? There’s a conversation that can happen, especially when a team is coming together for the first time.
That’s the expectations conversation. “What do you expect from us? What’s important for you to see so we earn your trust?” And vice versa—“Here’s what we need to see to trust you.”
Trust is very context-specific. For example, Harley, I trust you as a great podcaster, former software engineer, and entrepreneur. So if I need advice about those things, I’ll ask you. But I wouldn’t trust you to perform eye surgery—because that’s not your area of competence. That’s the visible layer: results and behavior.
Beneath that is the character part—intent and integrity. I recommend reading The Speed of Trust by Stephen M.R. Covey. He breaks it down beautifully. One of the quickest ways to earn trust is to call out your intent.
This works especially well in tough situations—like performance management. You have an underperforming employee. You can go in with judgment and metrics. Or, you can start the conversation by saying:
“Hey, the goal of this conversation is to help you overcome some recent performance issues and invest in your growth. I want to see you succeed, outperform, and get promoted. Let’s figure out how to get there together.”
Now it’s a totally different conversation. You’ve shifted from judgment to support.
Harley Green: Yeah, totally shifts the mindset there.
Nir Megnazi: Right? And you can still be honest and direct. “If you don’t meet these goals, it might mean this role isn’t the best fit. And as your leader, I need to care for both the team and you.” But the conversation starts with intent, with care.
Most low performers already know they’re struggling. They feel the stress. So when I show up to help them—not judge them—it changes everything.
Harley Green: Makes a ton of sense. On the flip side, looking at the leadership part of the equation, when they are having that disconnect from their team and there isn’t trust there, what are some of the red flags or warning signs they might keep an eye out for and be like, hey, trust might be an issue here. We need to really focus on earning that.
Nir Megnazi: One of the first signs is when people agree—but then disengage. You’ll be the only one talking in meetings. Everyone nods but later does something different. You won’t see alignment in execution. That’s a massive red flag.
Sometimes it’s the opposite. If it’s a tight-knit team and they don’t trust you, you’ll get lots of pushback. They resist every direction. Why? Because they don’t trust your leadership or intentions. And that’s the difference between being a manager and being a leader.
I can say I’m a manager. But I can’t say I’m a leader. That’s something others decide—when they choose to follow you. That’s what makes you a leader.
When these signs show up, high-performance communication becomes essential. Say: “I asked you to do A, and you did B. I’m curious—what made you choose B over A?”
Harley Green: It’s powerful.
Nir Megnazi: It’s amazing what happens when we ask better questions and drop the judgment. We often judge based on our values and needs—not theirs. And if I want to transform the relationship, I need to first understand them. What do they need? What’s their perspective?
Through deep, curious communication, we shift perspectives together. And sometimes, their insights will reshape the actual goal. I’ve seen this happen many times.
Harley Green: It’s powerful.
Nir Megnazi: It’s amazing what happens when we ask better questions and drop the judgment. We often judge based on our values and needs—not theirs. And if I want to transform the relationship, I need to first understand them. What do they need? What’s their perspective?
Through deep, curious communication, we shift perspectives together. And sometimes, their insights will reshape the actual goal. I’ve seen this happen many times.
I’ll share a story. I was placed as a leader over a team where I had no technical background in their specific work. I understood the overall process but couldn’t support them technically. One day, we had to replace an old tool with a new one. My idea was to switch it piece by piece to avoid disrupting the client.
Everyone nodded in agreement during the meeting. But later, the tech lead pulled me aside. We walked around the building, something I enjoy doing during one-on-ones. And he said, “You made the wrong decision today.”
So I asked, “Tell me more. What did I miss?”
He explained, “We can’t decouple and replace blocks cleanly. Doing it your way would create massive overhead. Let us develop the full envelope for the new tool and launch it all at once. It’ll take a month longer, but the quality and outcome will be better.”
I asked, “Does the team agree with you?” He said yes. They’d discussed it already.
So the next day, I brought the team together and said, “I’m sorry. I may not have given you enough space to speak up and share possibilities. But now I hear you. You want to launch the new tool as a single unit.” They all confirmed.
I said, “I trust you. Show me a plan, and let’s go.” And that launch was a huge success.
Again, it came down to employee courage to speak up, and my willingness to be curious.
Harley Green: I love that. Now, as we wrap up, if there are leaders listening today and they want to begin leading with more trust and empathy with their team and having that strong connection, what is the very first step they should start taking this week?
Nir Megnazi: That’s a tough question. Let me think for a second.
The first step they should take this week is this: Before each meeting, take 30 seconds to pause and center yourself. Ask, “How do I want to show up in this meeting?”
Choose to be present. Choose to listen. Choose to be curious. Those 30 seconds will have two powerful effects.
First, your team will feel that you are truly there with them—not distracted by a hundred other things. That presence will translate as leadership presence. And that earns trust.
Second, you will learn so much more—because you set your intention to be curious.
Be open to having your perspective influenced. Because if you want to influence, you must be willing to be influenced. That’s the shift.
Harley Green: Yeah.
Nir Megnazi: That’s part of the mindset. When you’re curious, be open to being influenced. The goal isn’t to be right—the goal is to achieve results.
Harley Green: Right. Awesome. That was powerful advice. Nir, thank you so much for sharing your stories, your wisdom, these practical tips for our audience today. If people want to continue the conversation with you, talk more about how they can build this connection with their teams and get that ROI with their people, what’s the best way for them to connect with you?
Nir Megnazi: You can visit my website, nirmegnazi.com. There’s also a free ebook you can sign up for on how to build trust while going through major changes—how to lead through chaos and earn trust. Also, connect with me on LinkedIn. I read all my messages and love connecting with new people. So feel free to DM me.
Harley Green: Awesome. We’ll make sure we have those links in the show notes. And for those of you listening, if you got value today, hit that like, follow, or subscribe button at the top. These ratings really help us equip more businesses and leaders who want to grow the smart way.
And maybe you know a business owner or colleague who could use this information—share this episode with them. It could be exactly what they need right now.
Thank you everyone for tuning in to Scale Smart, Grow Fast. Here’s to building businesses that give you more freedom, stronger teams, and lasting growth.
Burnout Isn’t a Workload Problem — It’s a Thinking Problem
Leadership burnout is at an all-time high. But according to Dr. Andre Walton, organizational psychologist, innovation expert, and founder of Plan4Change, the root cause isn’t long hours or too much responsibility.
It’s the way leaders are thinking.
In a recent episode of the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast, host Harley Green sits down with Dr. Walton to unpack why traditional, analytical problem-solving is draining leaders — and how a different approach, calledspherical thinking, helps leaders regain creativity, resilience, and clarity.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Why Smart Leaders Are Burning Out
Most leaders have been trained to rely almost exclusively on analytical, deductive thinking — drilling down, narrowing focus, and optimizing for efficiency. While this approach is useful, Dr. Walton explains that overusing it creates mental “blinders.”
Under pressure, leaders:
See fewer options
Feel trapped or reactive
Lose perspective
Experience chronic stress and burnout
Burnout, Dr. Walton argues, isn’t simply about workload. It’s about a lack of perceived resources and options. When leaders can’t see alternative paths forward, stress compounds — even if the workload hasn’t changed.
The Two Thinking Systems in the Brain
Neuroscience research using functional MRI (fMRI) shows that creative thinking and analytical thinking activate different neural pathways.
Analytical thinking is convergent and narrowing
Creative thinking is divergent and expansive
Modern leaders are heavily conditioned to suppress creativity in favor of logic and efficiency. Over time, this imbalance doesn’t just reduce innovation — it weakens emotional intelligence and resilience.
What Is Spherical Thinking?
Spherical thinking is the ability to balance and switch between creative and analytical thinking depending on the situation.
Dr. Walton compares it to a jazz musician:
Structure and discipline provide the foundation
Creativity and improvisation create breakthroughs
Effective leaders know when to analyze — and when to step back, explore options, and think creatively. This balance allows leaders to:
Make better decisions under pressure
Adapt to complexity and uncertainty
Recover faster from setbacks
The Hidden Risk of AI for Leaders
The episode also explores the growing reliance on AI tools in leadership and decision-making.
Emerging research suggests that executives who over-rely on AI may experience declines in critical and creative thinking. When leaders outsource too much cognitive effort, those mental “muscles” weaken.
The solution isn’t avoiding AI — it’s using it intentionally.
Dr. Walton recommends using AI as a thought partner, not a replacement:
Ask AI to generate ideas, not just answers
Use it to brainstorm, challenge assumptions, and expand perspective
Stay actively engaged in the thinking process
Leaders who use AI this way often increase their cognitive capacity rather than diminish it.
Practical Ways to Rebuild Creativity and Resilience
Dr. Walton shares simple, practical ways leaders can re-engage creative thinking daily:
Break routines with small, intentional changes
Make novel choices instead of default ones
Visualize future scenarios creatively, not just logically
“Shake the snow globe” to disrupt automatic thinking patterns
These small shifts reopen neural pathways connected to creativity, emotional intelligence, and resilience.
The Bottom Line for Leaders
Burnout doesn’t mean you’re failing as a leader. It means the challenges you’re facing require a different way of thinking.
Leaders who develop spherical thinking don’t just survive pressure — they perform better because of it.
📚 Connect With Dr. Andre Walton
If you want to go deeper into spherical thinking, creativity, and leadership resilience, here are the best ways to connect with Dr. Walton:
📘 Book:Creative Thinking: A Coach’s Perspective (International Bestseller, available on Amazon)
If burnout is a thinking problem, the solution starts with better support.
Book a discovery call with Workergenix to learn how an Ultimate Executive Assistant can help you reclaim focus, expand your options, and lead with clarity instead of constant pressure.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript:
Harley Green: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. Leaders often get stuck in reactive patterns that drain their teams and themselves. Dr. Andre Walton is going to be sharing a game-changing framework for how leaders can shift from burnout to brilliance using spherical thinking, a proven neural strategy for innovation and resilience. Drawing from his multicultural leadership experience and work with top organizations like Virgin Group and the Smithsonian, Dr. Walton is going to unpack how creativity is not a luxury, but a leadership imperative. Dr. Walton, welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Andre Walton: Thank you very much, Harley. I’m doing great, and it’s nice to see you again.
Harley Green: Well, could you maybe share a little bit more about your background and what brought you to doing what you’re doing today?
Andre Walton: Sure. I’ve always had a very close link to creativity. Both my parents were artists of very high quality. My dad was actually a world-renowned artist. I did a lot of sciences and math at high school and promptly left school to get a job as a graphic artist for a publishing company. Somehow or other, I’ve always been attracted to things related to creativity.
In my twenties, I started inventing and patenting things. Over the next fifteen years, I took two of those inventions to become world leaders in their fields. One strand of my DNA is creativity. Another strand is business. And the third one really is education and coaching.
After my entrepreneurial time of life, I decided to go back to school and get my PhD as a mature student, although my friends wouldn’t necessarily agree with that description. My focus was organizational-level creativity.
Since that time, I’ve been helping organizations—you mentioned a couple of them—Virgin Group and the Smithsonian, as well as NASA, Lloyds Bank, and a few others, to become more innovative and to generate spaces that are more conducive to being innovative.
More recently, I’ve been working on this concept of there being two different ways of thinking. This was kind of a theory in the back of my mind twenty years ago. More recently, with functional MRI technology being available, those theories suddenly came to life.
For anyone not familiar with functional MRI, we all know what an MRI is. If you fall down and hit your head, you might get an MRI to check for damage. Functional MRI is exciting because you can actually look at neural pathways lighting up as people think different thoughts.
Those bath-time theories I came up with in the early 2000s were validated when people discovered that there are physically different neural pathways when you’re thinking creatively versus analytically.
That led me to the idea that we have these two neural pathways. When I studied that further, I realized that in the contemporary world we live in, surrounded by enormous levels of complexity compared to what our brains evolved for, we’ve been socialized into thinking in a very deductive and analytical way.
There’s an imbalance. The side of our brain that relates to creative thinking tends to have been suppressed. If you look at how our world has evolved, it’s far more technological than artistic. That imbalance, I believe, has negative consequences.
One of those negative consequences shows up in the rapid increase in burnout, anxiety, and stress disorders. The prevalence of these conditions has gone up and up over the past few years.
One important factor about creative thinking is that it is inherently divergent. Divergent thinking tests are used by social psychologists to measure creativity as a proxy. By divergent, I mean openness.
Imagine being teleported into a completely unfamiliar country. Your mindset would have to be very open. You’d be seeing strange things. When I first went to India, I was sitting in a little three-wheeler taxi driving in and out between huge elephants. It felt surreal. If you dreamed it, you’d think it was strange, but there it was in real life.
You have to accept that things are strange but functional. When you get into analytical thinking, it’s the opposite. People use phrases like “drill down.” Deductive analytical processes encourage you to focus more and more narrowly.
Under stress, that leads to what I call the hamster-wheel effect. It’s like a racehorse wearing blinders. You see the world through an ever-decreasing window.
The brilliance of using creative thinking with people experiencing burnout is that it removes those blinders. People under severe stress or anxiety don’t see options clearly. Their brain becomes so focused on stress that their available options disappear.
Harley Green: There’s a lot to unpack there. I’ve got a lot of questions, and I’m going to try to combine a couple that are related and something we talked about before we started recording. You mentioned that there have been studies recently showing that people who use AI tools a lot tend to have decreased creativity in their thinking. You also mentioned this idea that when we’re trying to solve problems, we’re trained to drill down and get very analytical, which creates blinders. I’ve seen that when trying to use AI to help with challenges, it can feel like the AI itself gets those blinders too. I wonder if that’s connected, that the way we’re thinking gets translated into how we use AI. Can you address the connection between creativity and AI in modern leadership?
Andre Walton: Absolutely. There was a very interesting piece of research uncovered a few weeks ago and reported in Harvard Business Review. The researchers compared two groups: a group of executives who used AI regularly and a group who did not.
They found that the group using AI tended to have poorer results when it came to measuring critical thinking. That got me thinking about why that might be.
The human brain is intrinsically always looking for ways to be efficient, even lazy. We see this across many areas of psychology. If you imagine you’ve employed the most brilliant person in the world, someone with infinite knowledge who can answer any question, you really have two choices.
You can sit back and let them do all the work, or you can say, this is someone I can learn from. The natural inclination for most people is to let the tool do the work.
AI can alleviate the requirement to think creatively or critically. You see this even in casual use. For example, with career clients who need to generate a resume, they can either sit and actively think about what matters in their life, or they can give all the data to AI and let it generate a polished document.
They often think the result looks amazing and stop thinking about it entirely. The cognitive work has been dramatically reduced.
Critical thinking, which is closely related to creative thinking, is a muscle. If you don’t use it, that neural pathway weakens. This is visible neurologically.
Creative thinking will become the differentiator between people who use AI to increase their cognitive capacity and those whose cognitive capacity decreases as a result of using AI.
Harley Green: Can you share examples of how leaders can use AI to help increase cognitive ability and creativity? We talked about resumes as an example of shutting off thinking, but what are some ways leaders can leverage AI to increase creativity and analytical thinking?
Andre Walton: That’s a great question, and this thought process is still developing. But if you put a prompt into AI asking it to solve a problem, you’ll get one type of output. If you instead ask it to generate ideas related to solving the problem, you get a very different outcome.
One gives you an answer that may or may not be optimal. The other gives you a range of ideas you can engage with, react to, and build upon.
Eventually, you might say, now that we’ve explored these ideas, help me refine a solution. The key point is that you’ve participated in the cognitive route to the outcome.
It’s like the difference between asking for an answer versus running a brainstorming session. In brainstorming, people challenge ideas, discard some, keep others, and work within constraints. There’s interaction.
There’s a strong parallel with how AI should be used.
Harley Green: One thing we’ve implemented with our executive assistants this year is training them to use AI as a thought partner. Before asking it to rewrite something, we have them give it a persona and ask it to interview them to gather context and brainstorm solutions instead of producing an answer. The quality of output and client support has increased dramatically.
Andre Walton: That’s a very enlightened approach, and I’m glad it’s produced great results. AI can hallucinate or get things wrong, and if people become overly reliant, they may not notice those inaccuracies.
It reminds me of autonomous cars. If people get too used to them, they forget how to drive manually. If they suddenly rent a car without automation, they can find themselves making dangerous mistakes.
The same applies to AI. Your process keeps people engaged and aware.
Harley Green: I’ve experienced this with driver-assist technology. Sometimes I forget it’s not enabled and assume the car will slow down for me.
Andre Walton: Exactly.
Harley Green: I want to shift to burnout. You’ve spent years studying it. How do you define burnout, and what misconceptions do leaders have?
Andre Walton: Burnout is often not recognized as a distinct condition. It’s usually lumped under work-related stress. Stress is often defined as an external force crushing your ability to cope.
I define stress differently. I define it as a lack of resources to deal with a challenge.
People often ask why burnout happens now and not six months ago, even when circumstances haven’t changed. The difference is internal resources.
Burnout happens when the internal capacity to cope no longer matches the external demands.
This is important because many people believe a vacation will fix burnout. They return feeling slightly better, but quickly fall back into burnout because the underlying issue wasn’t addressed.
Stress doesn’t switch on and off between work and home. It carries across contexts. Burnout is often about whether someone feels they have options.
If people feel stuck in their job and stuck in their personal life, burnout becomes much more likely.
With burnout clients, I focus on the three Rs: recreation, responsibilities, and relationships. These areas must be addressed in both work and personal life.
Harley Green: You talk a lot about spherical thinking. What is it, and how does it contrast with linear or reactive thinking?
Andre Walton: Spherical thinking is about balancing the two thinking styles and being able to switch between them.
Think about a jazz musician. There’s structure, coordination, and discipline. Then there’s improvisation. Knowing when to move between those modes is critical.
Leaders need analytical thinking to run a business, but they also need creative thinking to solve novel problems. Spherical thinking is the ability to choose the right mode at the right time.
Harley Green: How does spherical thinking help increase resilience in the workplace?
Andre Walton: Spherical thinking leads to higher emotional intelligence. fMRI studies show that the neural pathways associated with creativity overlap with those tied to emotional intelligence.
Resilience fails when people feel they lacked the resources to meet a challenge. When leaders use both structure and creativity, they maximize their chances of success.
Even if things don’t go perfectly, knowing you explored all options strengthens resilience.
Harley Green: What simple, practical changes can leaders make to rewire their brain for creativity and innovation?
Andre Walton: The easiest approach is disrupting routines. Small changes matter. Drink a different beverage in the morning. Choose a different meal. Try a new experience.
Another example is visualizing the future creatively. Create vision boards for trips or projects. This allows you to live in the future and see potential problems early.
Creative visualization both engages creativity and improves planning.
Harley Green: Where can people learn more about you?
Andre Walton: They can email me at .
Harley Green: You recently published a book. Can you share a bit about it?
Andre Walton: Yes. Creative Thinking: A Coach’s Perspective became an international bestseller. It explores creativity from early human history to modern leadership and explains how creative thinking is innate and recoverable.
Harley Green: We’ll link to that in the show notes. If you got value from this episode, hit like, follow, or subscribe. Share it with a leader who needs it. Thanks for tuning in, and we’ll see you next time.
How EOS Can Help You Scale Without Burning Out — Insights from Harvey Yergin
Growing a business without a clear operating system often leads to misalignment, frustration, and stalled progress. If you’ve ever felt like your business is running you instead of the other way around, you’re not alone.
In a recent episode of the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast, host Harley Green sat down with Harvey Yergin, a certified EOS Implementer, Army veteran, and former D1 athlete, to break down how the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) brings order, clarity, and growth to leadership teams across industries.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
🚨 The Problem: Chaotic Growth Without Structure
Harvey shared his own experience running a real estate business that was scaling—but painfully. The team struggled with communication, profitability, and accountability. Like many business owners, he was pouring in time and energy without seeing sustainable results.
That’s when he discovered Traction—the foundational book for EOS. Within a few pages, everything clicked.
✅ What is EOS?
EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) is a proven framework for helping leadership teams align on a shared vision, build healthy team dynamics, and gain traction through disciplined execution.
According to Harvey, EOS helps businesses master three pillars:
Vision – Get everyone 100% on the same page with where you’re going and how to get there.
Traction – Instill accountability and discipline to actually execute on your vision.
Healthy – Build a cohesive, open, and trusting leadership team.
🔧 EOS Tools That Transform Teams
Here are two powerful tools Harvey recommends for any team implementing EOS:
The Accountability Chart – Not your traditional org chart. It’s about defining functions first, people second. This tool helps ensure everyone is in the right seat doing the right things.
Core Values – These guide hiring, firing, and daily decision-making. They ensure cultural alignment across your team.
Harvey also emphasized the Level 10 Meeting, a structured weekly meeting agenda that drastically improves team communication, problem-solving, and focus. If your meetings are painful or pointless, this is a game changer.
💥 Why Most Teams Struggle (and How EOS Helps)
According to Harvey, most leadership teams fail not because they lack strategy, but because they ignore the human side—team health. Trust, vulnerability, and openness are often overlooked, yet they’re essential for growth.
He also stressed the importance of consistency and rhythm. Even self-implementing teams lose steam over time, which is why EOS emphasizes a 90-day reset cadence to re-align and re-energize leadership.
🧠 Is EOS Right for You?
EOS is industry-agnostic. Whether you’re running a landscaping company, law firm, nonprofit, or tech startup—if you’re working with people and want to grow, EOS can help.
But it’s not for everyone.
You need to be:
Growth-minded
Willing to change
Open to outside perspective
👊 Final Takeaway
If you’re feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure of your next move—you’re not alone. EOS gives you the tools to lead with confidence, align your team, and regain control of your business.
As Harvey puts it: “There’s no shame in needing help. The real strength is in seeking it.”
Book a free discovery call with Workergenix to get the support you need to fully implement EOS and stay focused on growth. Our Ultimate Executive Assistants handle the details so you can lead with clarity and traction.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript:
Harley Green:
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. Growing a business without a proven operating system often leads to misalignment, burnout, and stalled progress. In this episode, Harvey Yergin, certified EOS implementer, Army veteran, and former D1 athlete, shares how he helps leadership teams gain clarity, traction, and team health using the Entrepreneurial Operating System. With a background spanning real estate investing, military logistics, and entrepreneurial leadership, Harvey’s going to unpack the core EOS tools that help businesses align vision, empower people, and achieve results without the chaos. Harvey, how are you doing?
Harvey Yergin:
I’m good man, thanks for having me.
Harley Green:
Yeah, thanks for being on the show with us today. Now you’ve lived many lives—from being a D1 athlete, a military leader, entrepreneur, and EOS implementer. What drew you to helping leadership teams align and grow through EOS?
Harvey Yergin:
It’s fun. It’s really fulfilling and it seems like I have an innate set of skills that make me naturally good at it, which makes me pretty fortunate to have discovered something that aligns my skills with impact. Most of the business owners and leadership teams I work with are struggling in some capacity. Maybe they’re doing well and want to do better. Maybe they aren’t doing well and want to do a lot better. I empathize with that because as a business owner and team leader, I’ve been a part of successful teams and also know what it’s like to feel lost and in need of help. I know how that feels and how it feels to get clarity and when things start clicking. That’s what I want to do for people—with the help of the EOS tools.
Harley Green:
Tell us a bit more about how you got introduced to EOS. Were you on a team that was struggling?
Harvey Yergin:
I was running a real estate business. We were flipping houses in pretty good volume. It was my first real business with a team, and I wasn’t very good at it. We were struggling to make a profit, struggling to feel like we were making progress without pouring in more time and effort. Team dynamics were lousy. I was lucky enough to be handed the book “Traction,” which EOS is based on. I finally put aside my pride and cracked it open. Within the first nine pages, it felt like the book was speaking directly to me. I started to implement the tools in my business, and the rest is history.
Harley Green:
That’s similar to my experience. I remember being on a cruise where “Traction” was recommended. I used my morning workout time to listen to the audiobook. It was incredibly powerful. I took notes, and when we got back, I immediately started implementing those things. It’s been a game changer. So, I’m excited for you to share some top recommendations from EOS. Maybe people can relate to how you were feeling—stuck in the day-to-day, with teams not performing or being profitable. How does EOS help regain clarity and focus on what really matters?
Harvey Yergin:
Clarity and focus are often second-tier symptoms. The root frustrations are that business leaders aren’t generating the kind of revenue or profit they want, they’re working more in the business than they want to—whether in hours or mental energy. They’ve tried multiple things and none have stuck. They’re frustrated with their team. They might say, “nobody wants to work these days” or “it’s hard to find talent.” If you’re experiencing those things, getting clarity and focus through EOS tools can solve them. At the highest level, EOS is about getting vision, traction, and healthy. Vision means getting your team on the same page with where you’re going and how you plan to get there. Traction is about instilling real accountability and discipline. Healthy means building teams that are open, honest, vulnerable, and enjoy working together. If you don’t have that, your team will fray.
Harley Green:
Of the three pillars—vision, traction, and healthy teams—is there one that’s hardest to get right or most often overlooked?
Harvey Yergin:
Healthy, by far. People tend to focus on the “how” of business—process, strategy, tactics. There’s not enough focus on building and maintaining a healthy, cohesive team. You can do everything else right and still fail if your team isn’t built on trust. Books like “The Five Dysfunctions of a Team” start with trust for a reason. Ignoring this is often a team’s downfall.
Harley Green:
What are some recommended tools or starting points in EOS to ensure teams have the right people and accountability?
Harvey Yergin:
Two tools: the Accountability Chart and Core Values. The Accountability Chart is the first tool we use with every team. It’s structure first, people second. Most teams build their structure around who’s already there—which doesn’t work. You need to define the functions and roles your business needs over the next 6–12 months, and then assess if your people are the right fit for those seats. Core Values are on the Vision/Traction Organizer. They define the behaviors your organization values and lives by. Use them to attract the right people and repel the wrong ones. When both tools are in place, you get the right people in the right seats.
Harley Green:
Awesome. As people go through this, what are some of the biggest blind spots leadership teams have when setting up EOS?
Harvey Yergin:
Blind spots are common. The biggest stumbling block is an unwillingness to change. EOS is a new way of doing things, and if you’re resistant to change, it won’t work. EOS is for entrepreneurial teams—growth-minded and open to being honest and vulnerable. That can be scary. But holding on to old habits is often what keeps teams stuck.
Harley Green:
Are there mindset shifts or strategies that help people embrace change when starting EOS?
Harvey Yergin:
Honestly, if you have the tools and still can’t change, you may want to talk to a personal development coach or therapist. There’s often a deeper reason behind that resistance. Having an objective third party like an EOS Implementer helps. They’ll call out when your actions don’t align with your goals. Without that external input, you just get stuck in your own loop.
Harley Green:
Speaking of alignment—what EOS tools help with improving communication and meetings?
Harvey Yergin:
The Level 10 Meeting Agenda. Meetings often suck—unproductive, boring, nothing gets done. The L10 is structured to help teams actually make decisions, move forward, and connect. It’s one of the best tools for communication and results.
Harley Green:
We implemented L10 meetings in our business—it was night and day. We saved 15 minutes off our weekly leadership meetings. Team ratings went from 3s to 8s or 9s. Everyone communicates better now. Huge fan of the L10.
Switching gears—does EOS work better for certain industries?
Harvey Yergin:
EOS is industry agnostic. I’ve worked with construction, landscaping, trucking, attorneys, a baseball team, accountants, doctors, nonprofits—you name it. If you have a team, EOS can work for you. You just need to be willing to grow and change. The tools work for businesses of one, but things click more easily once you have 10+ employees.
Harley Green:
Do companies ever lose momentum after getting started with EOS?
Harvey Yergin:
Definitely. Especially self-implementing teams. You start strong, then life gets busy. That’s why EOS is designed around a 90-day world. Every 90 days, you reconnect, refocus, and re-energize. After the initial setup, I meet with teams quarterly. They always come in frazzled—and always leave fired up.
Harley Green:
That’s a universal truth, even Gino Wickman talked about it. As we wrap up, what’s one piece of advice for leaders who want freedom without losing control?
Harvey Yergin:
I get what you’re feeling—worried you’re messing things up, questioning your decisions, maybe even scared to ask for help. Just know there are thousands of us out there who’ve felt the same. You’re not alone. Whether it’s EOS Implementers, other leaders, or business owners, support is out there. Don’t be afraid to reach for it.
Harley Green:
That’s excellent advice. Harvey, thank you so much for sharing these insights. If people want to connect or learn more about EOS, how can they reach you?
Harvey Yergin:
Go to eosworldwide.com or check out the book “Traction.” If you want to connect directly, email me at .
Harley Green:
Thanks again. If you got value from this episode, hit like and subscribe so you don’t miss future strategies to help you scale smarter. Share it with someone who needs to hear it, and if you’re on a podcast platform, leave a quick rating. It helps us reach more leaders like you. Thanks for tuning in—we’ll see you in the next one.
How to Avoid Hiring Mistakes When Scaling Your Business (with Lynn Talbott)
Hiring during a growth phase can feel like a scramble. You’re stretched thin, juggling sales, operations, and your team — and suddenly you need someone yesterday. But rushing the hiring process can quietly sabotage your company’s momentum.
In a recent episode of the Scale Smart Grow Fastpodcast, host Harley Green sat down with Lynn Talbott, founder of The Bookkeeper’s Coach, to break down how to avoid the most common hiring pitfalls that hurt growing businesses.
Preferred listening on the go? Catch the full podcast episode on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Here are the top takeaways every founder needs to hear:
1. Your First 5 Hires Are Make-or-Break
Lynn compares early hires to “cornerstones” of your company. They shape your culture, pace, and scalability. Hiring someone who can’t grow with your business — even if they solve an immediate pain point — will cost you more in the long run.
✅ Tip: Think 3–5 years ahead when hiring. Choose people who can evolve with the company, not just fill a gap today.
2. Don’t Just Delegate—Lead
Founders often struggle with delegation — or worse, fall into abdication (handing something off and walking away). Lynn emphasizes the need to develop leadership in your team. Your hires should lighten your load, not add to it.
✅ Tip: Hire with leadership potential in mind. Can they take ownership, or will you be babysitting?
3. Culture Fit > Technical Fit
Many entrepreneurs rush into hiring someone with the right skills — but overlook cultural alignment. That’s a fast track to team dysfunction.
✅ Tip: Define your mission, values, and team vibe. Then hire people who live them, not just talk the talk.
4. Watch Out for the “Halo Effect”
One of the biggest mistakes? Letting your gut override structure. Entrepreneurs often make a snap judgment and then spend the rest of the interview convincing themselves the candidate is “the one.”
✅ Tip: Use structured interviews with behavioral questions. Stick to a checklist. Don’t wing it.
5. Don’t Hire Just Because You “Trust” Someone
Hiring a friend, family member, or neighbor because you “trust” them — not because they’re qualified — is a common trap Lynn warns against.
✅ Tip: Trust is great, but competency and fit are non-negotiable. Hire based on merit, not convenience.
6. Hire Slow, Fire Fast
If you realize you’ve hired the wrong person, act quickly. Avoid dragging out the pain — it affects your team, your culture, and your momentum.
✅ Tip: Have open conversations early. If it’s not working, make the call and move forward.
Final Thought: Structure Doesn’t Have to Feel “Corporate”
Many founders resist structure, thinking it will kill their creative edge. But according to Lynn, a bit of structure — especially around hiring — actually frees you up to lead and grow.
💼 Tired of hiring in panic mode or doing everything yourself?
Book your free discovery call with Workergenix and discover how an Ultimate Executive Assistant can help you escape hiring chaos, delegate smarter, and scale your business with less stress.
Like what you read? Get weekly insights on scaling, efficiency, and profitability—straight to your inbox. Click here to subscribe.
Transcript
Harley Green: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Scale Smart Grow Fast podcast. Growing your business doesn’t have to come at the cost of burnout or chaos. In this episode, Lynn Talbott, a successful founder who scaled and sold her seven-figure bookkeeping firm, shares the most common pitfalls leaders make when scaling and how to avoid them. From hiring too quickly to holding on to work that should be delegated, Lynn offers clear, hard-earned insights to help business owners grow sustainably and build a company they actually enjoy running. Welcome to the podcast. How are you doing today?
Lynn Talbott: I’m doing great. Thank you for having me, Harley.
Harley Green: That’s our pleasure. So Lynn, tell us a little bit more about your background. Tell us about your bookkeeping firm that you started and how you got through that and what brought you to what you’re doing today.
Lynn Talbott: Yes, so I’m sort of a serial entrepreneur. I got a human resources degree and went out and did the corporate world like most people do when they graduate from college. I was in HR. I really liked it, but I knew I always wanted to own my own business. So when I started my business, I called it HR Business Solutions, because I was going to help people with their back-end office doing human resources and maybe some bookkeeping. I started doing HR and found out quickly that entrepreneurs and startups don’t really want to talk to people about HR. They have their own way of doing things and they like to feel like they can make those HR decisions. I don’t need somebody telling me what to do. So quickly my HR Business Solutions company became more of a bookkeeping company simply because that was the need. And that’s what we do as startups—we shift when we have to, right?
Harley Green: I got that. Good pivot there.
Lynn Talbott: Yes. Over the years, I’ve helped hundreds of entrepreneurs at the startup level with their messy HR and bookkeeping—anything in the back office—helping them hire, figure out job descriptions, create handbooks, just creating some structure around when they’re ready to scale. Because when you start to scale, you get pulled in a lot of directions. I find the entrepreneur can get a little bit caught up in “I can do everything. I wear all the hats. I make all the decisions.” There’s something about being an entrepreneur that makes you feel like you can do everything, that you’re just Superman and you have all the answers. But what happens is a couple of years down the road, they find, “Wow, I didn’t do the right hire or I didn’t set up my back office right and now I’m scaling and trying to do a thousand things, but I might not have the right people in place.”
Harley Green: Yeah, I think we’ve all seen and experienced that. One thing you’ve mentioned before is how the first few hires—maybe the first five—can really make or break a business. What makes those early decisions so high-stakes?
Lynn Talbott: Your early hires set the tone for the culture, the pace, and how your business is going to go. I always say your first four hires are like your cornerstones—your building blocks. What does your company need so that you can delegate, be successful, and scale? That involves thinking three years, five years, or ten hires down the road. We all scale at different times. But if you don’t hire the right people at the right time, it can really cost you. You’re too busy growing and you can’t afford to hire the wrong people—those who need to be babysat, or who are constantly battling with you, or aren’t helping you build your dream. One of the top issues I see entrepreneurs make is not taking those first hires seriously. They might hire quickly to fill a need—data entry, marketing, etc.—and while the person might have the skills in the moment, they may not be able to grow with your company long-term.
Harley Green: That’s really impactful. And you mentioned rushing into that first hire because you’ve got this pain point—let’s say marketing, right? You get the marketing person. What are some tips or strategies you’d share with leaders to slow it down a little and make sure that hire is strategic and the right one?
Lynn Talbott: One of the mottos I use is “Hire slow, fire fast.” I remember when I moved from corporate HR to owning my own business, I thought I knew everything and I could hire whoever I wanted. Even with my skills, background, and a degree in HR, I still didn’t heed that advice. I’d find somebody outgoing with great skills, do a quick interview, and off they go. Later, I’d find out they weren’t a culture fit. They were battling things internally. Every startup has a culture—and that culture is you, the entrepreneur. It’s everything you stand for and what you want your company to be. You have to ask, “Is this person going to fit my culture, or am I going to battle with them forever?” Toxic hires can poison your company and bring it down quickly. Entrepreneurs often realize it too late.
Harley Green: What are some tools or interview strategies you recommend to ensure a good culture match? We know how to evaluate technical skills. Are there particular methods for culture?
Lynn Talbott: That’s a great question. It’s hard to discern if you haven’t defined your culture, mission, and vision. I’m assuming your listeners have done that before hiring. They need to remember those during interviews—”Is this person able to meet those goals? Can they fit into this culture?” What I often see is entrepreneurs winging it. They trust their gut. They get on Zoom or a phone call and just start talking. That leads to what we call in HR the “halo effect.” Maybe you liked their resume or talked to them previously. You already decided you want to hire them. So instead of vetting them, you’re convincing them to work for you. You’ve put a little halo on them. No matter what they say, you pivot around it. They may not have the soft skills, the culture fit, or the ability to grow with you. That halo effect is real. It’s happened to me, and it can happen to anybody.
Harley Green: This goes back to how entrepreneurs often think they can do everything—including hiring. Is there a time or situation when it’s better to delegate the hiring to someone else like a professional recruiter?
Lynn Talbott: It depends on who you’re hiring. If you need an operations manager to run everything, yes, you might want to go outside. If it’s a marketing person or virtual assistant, you can probably do that yourself. But even then, you need some guidelines. Before hiring, define the job. What exactly are you hiring for? Is it just marketing, or do you also need someone to manage your CRM, do backend office work, or maybe even sales? When I say things like “job description” to entrepreneurs, they often say, “I left corporate to get away from people like you telling me I need an HR department.” I get it. HR has changed, and structure can feel stifling. But even a quick task list—something simple—can help you focus on who you’re hiring for. Tools like ChatGPT can help with that. And you’ll often think of more tasks while creating that list. Hire someone who can do that job or grow into it. Not everyone will come in ready to do the perfect job.
Harley Green: You’ve worked with teams that skipped defining roles. What problems show up when expectations aren’t clear from the start?
Lynn Talbott: I often get called in as a fractional HR person to talk to employees or departments who are disgruntled. Why? Usually because they don’t have clear roles. They have “free flow”—which entrepreneurs love—but once your company grows beyond 10 people, that starts to cause conflict between departments. People compete for the owner’s attention. If you don’t have the right leadership in place, you’ll be pulled in every direction. If you hire too fast, you might miss hiring people with the leadership skills you’ll need a year from now. If no one owns their tasks or department, you end up spread too thin. Those early hires need to take control and truly manage their areas.
Harley Green: That makes sense. And it leads into the next question. Entrepreneurs often hear “HR” and cringe—it’s not what they got into business for. So how should they think about culture while building a team without becoming too corporate?
Lynn Talbott: Everyone will have their own opinion and culture style. There’s no one-size-fits-all. But the owner sets the tone. What do you stand for as an entrepreneur, and how do you share that with your team? One company I worked with gave their team books that reflected their culture. They’d have lunch meetings to discuss them and give PTO for finishing the book. It was well received. It created open conversations and stronger communication. Not everyone will love that, but it worked for them. The key is to be intentional.
Harley Green: That’s a great example of strong culture. If someone has their culture in place and their team aligned, what’s the next step to build a strong interview process? How do they grow the business fast without hiring mistakes?
Lynn Talbott: Don’t wing it. Use an interview sheet with specific questions. In HR, we use behavioral questions—past behavior predicts future behavior. Ask how they handled certain situations, or how they performed under pressure. If you ask about a past role and they start with, “My boss was terrible,” believe them—that’s how they’ll treat you too. Their answers reveal how they behave, not just what skills they have.
Harley Green: Great segue into red flags. What are some red flags founders shouldn’t ignore, especially when desperate for help?
Lynn Talbott: One big red flag is hiring people close to you. It’s common—your spouse, child, mother, or sister-in-law doing your marketing because she’s a stay-at-home mom. Founders often say, “I can trust her, I’ll teach her.” That usually turns into chaos. Just because someone is trustworthy or nice doesn’t mean they’re qualified. I’ve had to “rescue” many startups because a family member was doing the books but didn’t know what they were doing. Avoid hiring just based on trust or familiarity.
Harley Green: Let’s move to another area—handing off tasks. At what point should a founder bring in a right-hand person, like an executive assistant or COO?
Lynn Talbott: As soon as possible. You’re already working 40, 50, 60 hours a week. You need to lead, sell, and drive vision—not clean up CRMs on weekends. The biggest mistake is not delegating. We tell ourselves, “I can do it in 10 minutes,” and push things to Saturday. But by Monday, you’re too busy again. If you want someone to be your operations manager, CFO, or take over finances, develop leadership early. Hire people who own tasks, not those who push them back to you. Delegate soon and develop leadership beneath you.
Harley Green: Great advice. As we wrap up, what’s your top advice for a founder who realizes they’ve hired the wrong person? How can they recover without losing momentum?
Lynn Talbott: Be honest. Sit down and talk to them. If you’ve had open conversations before, this will be easier. If you hate confrontation and want them gone, it’s tougher. But don’t let someone stay if they’re not pulling their weight, fitting your culture, or helping you grow. Hire slow, fire fast. Say, “This isn’t working, I’m going in a different direction.” And make it clean. Have someone else cut off access to systems. Laws vary by state, but act quickly before things escalate.
Harley Green: Lynn, you’ve shared incredible strategies today. If people want to connect with you, what’s the best way?
Lynn Talbott: You can find me at coachingbookkeepers.com. We have a training circle where we coach bookkeepers to scale and sell their bookkeeping firms.
Harley Green: If you got value from this episode, hit like and subscribe so you don’t miss future strategies to help you scale smarter. Share this with a business owner or colleague—it could be just what they need right now. Thanks for tuning in. See you on the next one.
